26. How Can Families Make The Most of Easter? What Is A Woman?

[00:00:06] Speaker A: Hi, my name is Katie Malone. [00:00:07] Speaker B: And I'm Brendan, the husband. [00:00:09] Speaker A: And you're listening to the Little Flock, the podcast that offers practical insights about living a counterculture of goodness, truth and beauty in a world of increasingly hostile secularism and indifference. [00:00:19] Speaker B: So if you're looking to learn from two imperfect followers of Christ about how to live like the wheat amongst the Darnell, this is definitely the podcast for you. Hi, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Little Flock. [00:00:35] Speaker A: Hi, everyone. [00:00:36] Speaker B: It's the end of Lent, Katie. Well, just about. Just about the end of Lent. A couple of days to go. We're in Holy Week. We're on the home straight, you might say. [00:00:45] Speaker A: I think we're on the last slope. [00:00:47] Speaker B: Yeah, we really are. The last little bit. You can see base camp again. The slope of Golgotha. Yeah, you've ascended and you've come back down the mountain. We're talking about that in just a minute. Before we do, though, just. Just a couple of the usual things, please, like the show. If you haven't already done that, and share it with friends. If you haven't done that, subscribe. If you're not already a subscriber, give us a rating. If you could do that. All of that sort of stuff helps the show. If you want to send us a question to discuss, you can do that by going to the littleflockpodcast.org or lifenet.org nz and there's links at both of those pages, at the top of both of those pages. And you can send us your questions and you can do that anonymously if you want to as well. And two other little things. First of all, if you want to support our work, you can do that by becoming a [email protected] leftfootmedia the link is in today's show notes. And if you support us that way, then you get access to some exclusive subscriber only content. So if you're a $5 or more monthly patron, you get the daily episode of the Dispatchers podcast. It's a bit more about culture and politics and other stuff like that. So that might not necessarily appeal to everybody, right? No, not me, but there isn't. [00:01:56] Speaker A: I get that privately. [00:01:57] Speaker B: Yeah, Yeah. I get enough of this guy's opinions at home. Yeah. The other thing, of course, that we've started this year is a brand new weekly podcast called the Lamp. And the Lamp is once a week and it takes a deep dive into the Christian scriptures. And all you have to do is subscribe with a minimum of $1 a month. So 12 bucks a year, minimum. That's it. If you want to give more, great. But you don't have to give any more. And if you give a minimum of a dollar a month, you will get access to that weekly episode of the Lamp podcast. So these are subscriber exclusives and they obviously help to provide support for the work that we're doing. If you want to do it the other way, the old fashioned way in New Zealand, you can actually give directly to the LifeNet Charitable Trust and you can claim it back on your tax. Katie, with that out of the way, there is one little thing I should say that's a bit unique this time. I've put together a special playlist on Spotify called Good Friday and I will post a link for that. But if you search up Good Friday Brenda Malone on Spotify, you'll probably find it that way too. Can't miss. It's got two purple cross emojis either side of it and it's just a almost two hours worth of, you know, beautiful hymns, chants and other musical compositions that are focused on Christ's passion and death and so, you know, the events surrounding, you know, for the Last Supper to the crucifixion and related themes. So it might be something that helps you just to sort of have a more reflective. [00:03:19] Speaker A: Enter in a bit more. [00:03:20] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And so that's available. It's not, there's no cost or anything, it's just Spotify. It's just a playlist. And so I'll post a link to that in the the show notes for today as well. Or you can just search that up on Spotify. Some people might find that really helpful. One other thing too is early this morning I got up early and recorded a video podcast with Bob McCoskery from Family First. And this is really for New Zealand listeners talking about the new relationships and sexuality education guidelines that have just been published. It's a draft format and people could have their say on that. So we recorded a half an hour conversation about that. So if you're a parent and you're interested in that, your kids are at school in New Zealand, that will be published free to air next Wednesday. So, yeah, just keep an eye out for that and, you know, maybe share the word if you're interested in, you know, other parents who are as well. Gosh, that was a lot to get through, wasn't it? [00:04:11] Speaker A: We did well. [00:04:12] Speaker B: I did. Katie, we don't want to take all day and I know we're in Holy Week. We don't want people Sitting here, you know, staying at home all night, listening to podcasts. Do we. They've got more important things to do. But let's get into the business of this podcast. And we really should talk about. We're at the end of Lent now. We talked about going into Lent. [00:04:30] Speaker A: Yes. [00:04:31] Speaker B: This is more of an Easter focused theme, really. Among other things. But, Lind, how has it been for you? How would you just. Now you're on the other side of it, remember? And I don't expect you to remember what you said going in, but how do you feel? It's. [00:04:43] Speaker A: I actually don't remember what I said. Pretty good. Pretty. Can we call Lent good? Yes. It's a good season because it's good for us, I suppose. Yeah. [00:04:54] Speaker B: Sorry your iPad suddenly gone wonky here, folks. Those are like. What's going on? What's going on? [00:05:00] Speaker A: Yeah, it's been good. Mainly because I joined that. I had that little support group. I think I talked about that at the beginning. [00:05:05] Speaker B: Yeah, you did. Fiat fiat 40. I was gonna say fiat 90s. Fiat 40. And it's just for women. [00:05:09] Speaker A: Yep. And you sort of take up different disciplines and hopefully a bit more prayer and some more penitential sacrificial stuff. [00:05:20] Speaker B: What's been the best thing about it? [00:05:22] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely the group contact. Yep. So having. Every week we would meet and have a check in. How you going? And you also have a person you check in with every day, which in my case was someone I check in with every day anyway. Not you. [00:05:32] Speaker B: No, as another woman. A fellow female. [00:05:35] Speaker A: Female. [00:05:35] Speaker B: What is a woman? [00:05:36] Speaker A: Oh, we'll get to that. Yeah. Yeah. So that's. It was great because you had that small group and you kind of got to know a few different people that you didn't always see and. And understand a bit more what's hard for them, what's challenging for them. And in Lent and in life in general. Women. Women like a support group. We need them. [00:05:56] Speaker B: I do love a good support. [00:05:57] Speaker A: We do like to chat. I don't know if you've noticed. [00:06:00] Speaker B: Well, I wasn't going to say that. I mean, who would say such. [00:06:03] Speaker A: So it was great. It was really good. Yeah. So it definitely made a difference and I reckon. [00:06:07] Speaker B: But valuable, you'd say. [00:06:08] Speaker A: Yeah. Even if I wasn't doing Fiat, because I had, you know, some of it was possibly more than I usually would have done. [00:06:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:16] Speaker A: So I think I would definitely be careful discerning next year how much I would take on. [00:06:20] Speaker B: So you think maybe you pushed it a little hard, do you think? [00:06:23] Speaker A: I don't know. I mean, I think we can always. You can always. You. I think you always look back at Lent and go, oh, I could have done better. I could have done better. But it shouldn't be a point of pride. Lent isn't about how well did you do. [00:06:32] Speaker B: No, but I think there is a healthy thing. If you sort of get a sense of saying, you know what, I did good, but, you know, but I still need help. [00:06:39] Speaker A: I think that's what you should end with. [00:06:40] Speaker B: Well, yeah, you're. There's more growth. Yeah. You're recognizing that growth is essential. [00:06:45] Speaker A: I think that's really important because I don't. I really. My. My issue at the beginning, and it probably still is not an issue, but a discernment lynch. For me, lynch should never become a checklist. I did all these things today. Look how well I've done me and. [00:07:00] Speaker B: Jesus, you're really good on that. And I think that's a good point. [00:07:02] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's really, really important. But I mean, and certainly in the booklet that was put together, that was very much laid out. Len shouldn't be miserable. It's not meant to be a miserable season. We're not meant to cover ourselves in sackcloth and ashes and go around like. And I've actually seen this happen in modern day when I was in Italy. I've seen people in sackcloth. [00:07:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:07:22] Speaker A: What's that called? Being penitent, Being repentant? But is that actually what the Lord calls us to? I don't know about those people, but it's not what he's calling me to do. [00:07:30] Speaker B: No. [00:07:31] Speaker A: Like, what did Lucy say? She said, oh, dad, I'm wearing my phylactery short. You know, she didn't want to tell us what her. [00:07:36] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, that's right. [00:07:38] Speaker A: You know, like, that's awesome. [00:07:40] Speaker B: But that's what it should be. You're right. And the funny thing about ashes, we forget to recognize that Lent is about the green shoots. And ash is actually like a fertilizer. It fertilizes those green shoots and so it's clearing the ground and allowing the green shoots. So it should be growth focused. [00:07:57] Speaker A: Yeah. There's got to be some stripping back, right? [00:07:59] Speaker B: Yes. [00:07:59] Speaker A: Part of gardening as well. You know, you take your laterals off your. [00:08:02] Speaker B: But it's not deprival. For the sake of Deprival. [00:08:04] Speaker A: Yes, Deprivals, anyway. For its own sake. Is it deprivation? [00:08:07] Speaker B: Deprivation, I think, is the correct. If anybody knows, my wife Katie will know. [00:08:13] Speaker A: Yeah. So it was good. I think even if I was just doing like a normal quote, unquote Lent, where you maybe just gave up some chocolate and hopefully took up some more prayer. Having that check in every week was really valuable. And I was talking to a friend this morning and she said, I have a Lent small group that I started, I joined a few years ago. And we just do it every. I think it's the same group. Maybe it changes a wee bit. But she's like, I don't even read the book we're reading half the time. It's just valuable having that, I think especially for women having that check in with each other and maybe especially for mothers are quite busy actually stopping and saying, well, how. What's this week look like for me and Jesus? You know? [00:08:50] Speaker B: Well, it's interesting. This kind of relates to what we're gonna talk about next. So I won't go too far into this, but it sort of, as you were speaking there, it sort of dawned on me, well, probably a lot of women today, right? Motherhood's a very lonely pursuit now for a lot of women because motherhood is not at all considered a status thing to participate in now. Career is. So remember Ardern even was when she came back after she had a baby, it wasn't that she'd had a baby, it was the fact that she was back at work with the baby. So you had to do the work bit. Otherwise that wouldn't have been enough just to, you know, you had to be the prime minister and have a baby. And it sort of, you sort of realize, oh, so motherhood's a bit of a lonely pursuit. And if often you're on your own, but then also when you're with your work colleagues, it's not really like you're gonna be sitting down and talking about the deeper things of life and spirituality. [00:09:38] Speaker A: I do with some of my work. [00:09:41] Speaker B: You know, that's a whole another story. But you know, you, you're going to be talking about the KPIs and the, and the performance related spreadsheets last night. Yeah. Have you got your TPS reports? If, if you know that film, let us know in the comments section if you remember that. Yeah, we'll talk. My stepper. If you know that film, please tell us. But. Yeah, yeah, so. So there's something really important about that that that really sort of is. Is getting beyond the superficialities of. [00:10:07] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. [00:10:08] Speaker B: Of life. [00:10:08] Speaker A: What about you? How's your limp been? [00:10:10] Speaker B: I would say it's been good. It's been fast. I like, I really. Yours hasn't been Fast. I can't believe it. I'm looking at some going, man. I can't believe we are now days away from celebrating the most important feast in the Christian calendar, the Resurrection. I just, and I don't know what it is, maybe just my work schedule and everything else. It's just been. [00:10:32] Speaker A: I feel like my normal life has been fast, but my Lent has been. Been not fast. [00:10:35] Speaker B: Really. [00:10:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:36] Speaker B: Fascinating. No, for me, it's. It's flying by. I. For me, what I found good this Lent is. I think that there's been a sense of a couple of disciplines that I added in and I gave up whiskey. I should, I should say that out loud. But yeah, we went for actually short and a couple of other disciplines that I had. And they, they quitty quiddy pretty quickly. That's. That's definitely not a word. They pretty quickly actually became routine, which I was kind surprised by. I thought that might be more of a challenge than it was. And in fact, it sort of calls me to go, you know what? I think I might actually sustain some of the stuff beyond this because there's probably benefit in that anyway. Not having a week that is just one long numb sort of baseline, you know, like it should go up and down. You know, there should be moments like even outside of Lent, we shouldn't just be constantly feasting all the time. Like you feast during the feast, festive seasons or festive days. But then if you're doing that every day, it becomes. You become numb. Yeah. Yeah. So I've realized probably some of that. I've also. One thing I've realized, particularly this week, deliberately for Holy Week, I have. I've bricked my phone effectively. And for those who don't know what that means, basically it becomes a brick in a sense. So I figured out the youths say. That's what the cool say. Yeah. So what I've figured out is there's actually a really handy feature on my iPhone where I can turn on basically a permanent screen time limit. But you actually specialize it or you, you customize it to apps and you can have a list of apps that are excluded. And I just have it on the whole day now. And I've realized I think I'm gonna leave this on because what happens is you go to open an app like. So I've got my phone and my messenger services, you know, WhatsApp, they're excluded. Cause I need those for work maps. Obviously that's excluded, things like that. But everything else is just bricked. And what that means is if I Open up an app that's bricked. I click on it and it gives me a message and it says, you've reached your limit. And then it says to you, okay, or ignore limit. And then when you press ignore limit, it says, 1 minute, 15 minutes or for the rest of the day. And so what that means is I can still use an app in an emergency if I needed to do something like, okay, I just need to. I need 15 minutes. All of a sudden, there I've discovered, even the last couple of days, a that little barrier has stopped me looking at my phone as much. So I click on it. It goes, yeah, sorry, you reach your limit, you go, oh, yeah, that's right, put it down. It's reminding me that I don't want to be on this all the time. And then when I do need it, I can actually just go, oh, I need a minute to check something, and bang. And then it's done and it just cuts off and I put it down again. That's been really helpful. So I think, like, it helps you. [00:13:21] Speaker A: Realise how much how often you go to those apps without thinking, oh, heck, is it? [00:13:25] Speaker B: It's shocking. [00:13:26] Speaker A: Yeah. And that little barrier, how many times I opened Facebook and I was like, oh, no. [00:13:31] Speaker B: So what that's done for me is it was a Lenten thing. I didn't do it for that other reason. But now I've realized actually this is a tool that not only should I be using regularly, I should be telling other people to adopt this practice themselves if they're interested in sort of getting a bit of control back. And so Lent has been like a learning thing. And particularly for me this year, I've actually had what I would call a good Lent, because maybe in the past I've felt a. It should be really, really intensely penitent. And then if I don't quite reach these high targets, I then feel like I've failed or I didn't live up to that penitence. And what does that say about me? And I'm not talking about major. It's not like I'm scourging myself and flagellate myself on Easter Sunday. I'm a failure. No, it's not like that. But this time around, I've actually. I think probably it was one of the best lengths as far as just being prudent and. And doing those basic disciplines well. And just having a sense of the season is actually. It is a season of goodness. It's not the deprivation that we go through is. It's a fast, it's Not a. It's not a. You know, it's not. Not. You're not cutting your arm off, you know, and then going, oh, I've got no arm. You know, it's. It's actually. It is a. As a. Is an abstinence from something in order that there can be a space for God. And that's been a lot more. I've been a lot more pressing into that space for God. [00:14:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:51] Speaker B: This Lent. So. And one thing I've really loved too, is our kids. You sort of. They've. It feels to me like this length. I've really. Just a bit older and maybe they're a bit more. [00:15:01] Speaker A: Certainly the older girls, probably a bit more aware. [00:15:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:04] Speaker A: More understanding of. Yeah, yeah. [00:15:06] Speaker B: And. And even our son, who's adopted his own little. [00:15:10] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:15:11] Speaker B: Impromptu Lenton a couple of weeks ago. [00:15:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:15:13] Speaker B: And he's still sleeping on the floor. So he. No mattress. [00:15:16] Speaker A: He reckons he's gonna do it for the rest of the holiday. So I was like, I might need to wash that sleeping bag. [00:15:21] Speaker B: He's doing it tough. You know, not many people can. Not many blokes can sleep on a concrete floor. But he's. Yeah. And I know he's had some rough nights, but he said, no, no, I wanna. I said, you can get back in your bed, son. He's like, no, this is my little. I was like, well, that's. That's beautiful. You know, like. And I love seeing that. That sort of sense of them being reminded of in a very tangible way, like, you know, that will stay with him in a sense, about Christ's passion and death and the loving price that Christ paid for us. It will stay with him in a meaningful way, you know, like. Yeah, so it's. It's. I'd say it's been good overall. And I get the feeling too, that between Exodus 40, which is the men's version of what you did, and Fiat 40, it's been a real blessing for a lot of people that we know in our church and in our Christian circles and. And who've been doing this. [00:16:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:09] Speaker B: So would you recommend Fiat? Would you. Would you. Would you put caveats on it? [00:16:14] Speaker A: I would just say be discerning and don't beat yourself up. [00:16:17] Speaker B: Okay. Back it up a bit. What do you mean specifically? [00:16:20] Speaker A: Don't be yourself up if you can't. If you look at the list of suggested disciplines and you think, I. Absolutely. Okay, yeah. [00:16:27] Speaker B: No, good. Yeah. [00:16:28] Speaker A: Because it's. You are still a human being. You're not a human doing. Sorry, I Always have to say that. But, yeah, we're people and we have to discern what works in our state of life. Yeah, that's prudent with whatever we're going through. I mean, you don't know what's gonna. In six weeks, lots can happen. [00:16:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:45] Speaker A: Yeah. So it's A, be discerning for what you enter into and a B, discerning with what you continue with. And you'd be surprised. I was surprised at the things that were hard that I thought other things would be hard. I mean, and I haven't. I definitely have picked and chosen what I thought. [00:17:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:04] Speaker B: And so you were surprised. They. So things you thought, oh, I can do that in a breeze. [00:17:08] Speaker A: And that wasn't social media. I don't feel like I'm on social media all the time. But the amount of time I went to open it just for mindless scrolling. And that's where I'm like, well, here I could be saying evening prayer. That's. [00:17:21] Speaker B: And that's one thing I've. I've honestly becoming more and more prescient of is this. We don't how much of a trap that particular technology is. [00:17:28] Speaker A: And it's funny. Cause I actually haven't missed it. I don't feel like, oh, I've missed everything. People have told me things I've missed. I'm like, oh, yeah. But it's the default to that in our lives. And the amount of time we spend just looking at stuff that we don't need to. [00:17:44] Speaker B: No. I think we're gonna get blasted, by the way, on Easter Sunday morning with a whole lot of Taylor Swift. Cause our girls have given up secular music. And I mean, so have I, to be fair. And so I suspect that we might be. [00:17:58] Speaker A: I don't actually know if they've missed it that much. [00:18:00] Speaker B: No. Well, you know, just quietly hoping that. [00:18:02] Speaker A: Yeah, we just won't say anything, you. [00:18:05] Speaker B: Know, oh, it's lento. But, yeah, you're a bit of Taytay. So, yeah, it's been good, eh? It's been a good lean. And. And as I said, just the. The fact that we're. Now we're going to talk about the question we've got. We've only got one question today, which is about Easter. And it sort of seems appropriate. We started with this Lenten thing. How do we do Lent well in our families and in our households. And now we're being asked, well, how do we do Easter well? So that. That seems like an appropriate place to land. But speaking of landing, we're not quite there yet. We want to talk about an article. This is a great article that I came across recently or came across my desk. Things don't really come across our desks anymore, do they? They're sent to us. They come, they come into our inboxes. And this was one of those. And what is a woman, Katie? [00:18:47] Speaker A: What is a woman? [00:18:48] Speaker B: You know, it's the prescient question of our age. There's a whole documentary, as everyone knows about it. I was contemplating this, how important this little segment of our episode was today, just last night or the night before, and I was thinking, you know what? I think the confusion about womanhood, there's this great irony at the heart of it now and it's making everything worse. So initially, this sort of bold, assertive third and fourth wave feminism, very militant, very revolutionary, it basically, effectively, it got everything it wanted and it seemed, yes, this is it. The breakthrough has come. [00:19:25] Speaker A: Smash. [00:19:25] Speaker B: Yeah, liberation's here. You know, the liberation will not be televised because it's here. Everyone sees it. Women have got everything they want. They are now in the dominant positions, the power position. But what's happening? Well, first of all, there's a, I say curious, but a very unhelpful and deleterious knock on effect. Now our young men and boys are suffering because they are now in a culture where effectively they're being treated as if their masculinity is some inherent problem they're born with. And only if they weren't so masculine, then they would be better or the world would be safer, all that kind of stuff. [00:19:58] Speaker A: Because I'm male. [00:19:59] Speaker B: Yeah. And so they're just not sure of who they are. And then that opens up the door to the absolute psychopathic deviants like Andrew Tate to say, well, I'll give you an idea of what manhood should be, which is just a lie. And so that's all a mess. And then what that does then, of course, is a lot of them are checking out from women or they don't treat women well. And now women actually, ironically, probably now in a lot of ways are experiencing worse knock on effects than before. And then on the flip side, women have got everything they want, but the, the research and the surveys in all sorts of different areas don't actually suggest they are now happier. And, and so ironically, maybe this thing was a bit of a false game. And, and, and as we've lost sense with, you know, well, what is a woman? Gender identity's collapsed now. The whole thing's like, the thing's a mess, basically. So this whole idea of understanding who we are as men and women, it really does matter. And that's what this article is. It's really about. We're not going to read the whole thing, but you can read it. It's on the Word on Fire website. It's called do Woman have a Universal Vocation? By Kerry Christopher. And there's two quotes that really stuck out to us. She's sort of exploring this question. Well, but, like, you know, what is womanhood? What does it mean? What does it. [00:21:11] Speaker A: She talks about a 2. She thinks we're giving girls a 2D vision. [00:21:15] Speaker B: Yes. Unpack that a bit. Explain what she means. [00:21:17] Speaker A: Gosh. Just. Yeah, just that we're not kind of giving them, like, a full picture of what womanhood is. Is very much like, you're a girl. [00:21:29] Speaker B: Y. [00:21:30] Speaker A: You can have babies. [00:21:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:32] Speaker A: And. But not. [00:21:33] Speaker B: Or you're a girl and you can have a career. [00:21:35] Speaker A: Yeah. And. Yeah. And you can have a. [00:21:36] Speaker B: It's like a binary, isn't it? [00:21:37] Speaker A: Yeah. But then she talks about how hard it is to give a 3D vision of anything. [00:21:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:42] Speaker A: You know, because words are just words. Right. Like, how do you paint a picture of what a woman is? [00:21:48] Speaker B: Yeah. And. And it's a. There's a sort of a. I think there's another interesting thing that's. It's often unspoken because I don't think a lot of people really either see it or have the words to really communicate it. We. We are talking about. We're having this conversation about human identity at the very moment when cultural identity is totally collapsed. And I think the two are kind of intertwined. Like, your anthropology gives rise to your culture, like, who you are and your understanding of who you are as a human person. And. And then the culture is collapsing, and we're sort of like, oh, maybe we can try and salvage human identity, but not really acknowledge the. These essential things that actually give rise to that and gave rise to the culture. [00:22:26] Speaker A: We're trying to define human identity and womanhood as a, like, subset of that. [00:22:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:32] Speaker A: Without relationship to God. [00:22:33] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. [00:22:34] Speaker A: Relation to God. So we're. Because we were not allowed to acknowledge that maybe we were created. [00:22:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:39] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:22:41] Speaker B: How dare you say that. [00:22:42] Speaker A: I'm just an accident. [00:22:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:45] Speaker A: Then who are we? [00:22:46] Speaker B: Yeah. We are random products of evolutionary. [00:22:49] Speaker A: It's not a surprise that we struggle with this. She talks about this thing that we're not allowed to say. Men and women are different. [00:22:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:58] Speaker A: Like. But she talks about that is like. Well, nobody ever kind of expanded on that for such A long time. Because it was just an accepted truth. [00:23:06] Speaker B: It's kind of obvious, but now we're. [00:23:07] Speaker A: Kind of got to this point where we've tried to say, but they're not different. They're basically the same, different bits. No wonder we're struggling to define a woman. [00:23:16] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's what I was talking about. [00:23:17] Speaker A: Before, trying to say we're just a man with different bits. [00:23:20] Speaker B: And this is where I go back to that militant feminism which said, there is no difference, it's just genital differences. [00:23:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:27] Speaker B: That. To be fair, not all of them, because some feminists did have a sense of the unique otherness, but more and more modern feminism has become. No, we're just the same. Remove the barriers. [00:23:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:37] Speaker B: And so that's created this thing where. Yeah, you're right. And it was kind of like now we have such an extreme skepticism in our culture, too. You explain what is obvious. And people are able to be such cynics that you can walk away going, oh, yeah, maybe we don't really know what a woman is or a man is. Even though you actually do it is. [00:23:57] Speaker A: Whatever you want it to be. [00:23:58] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Because it's not something that you just. It's not like a quantifiable two plus two equals four. You know, there are edges. Like a tomboy is different from a girly girl, you know, but, you know, they're a woman. [00:24:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:11] Speaker B: But once the cynic gets in there and starts picking away at that seams, you walk away going, oh, oh, yeah. Maybe there is no such thing as woman or man or anything. You know, like, it's just. Yeah, it's madness. [00:24:22] Speaker A: I had a little laugh. We've got a quote here that Brendan's gonna read in a minute that we thought was quite good. But I had a little laugh because it's from John Paul ii. And I thought, oh, here we go, he's going to mansplain. But I thought, it's better than that because he's going to Pope explain it so well. [00:24:34] Speaker B: Do you know what? I have even heard people on both sides very recently attacking Pope John Paul II's writings on authentic feminism and the feminine genius. Some of the most beautiful I have seen non I'm not Christian third wave feminists raving about how much they love his writings. And now I'm seeing people within Christendom attacking them. [00:24:59] Speaker A: And I'm like, you love a man writing about. [00:25:01] Speaker B: Well, no, the ideology is so corrupted now that they've even lost. See, those older feminists saw what he was saying. And they were saying, he. What is a pope. [00:25:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:25:13] Speaker B: He was. He was. He was celebrating the unique otherness of woman. And they saw that. That's what. [00:25:18] Speaker A: They're beautiful. [00:25:18] Speaker B: The wiser feminists wanted that. [00:25:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:25:21] Speaker B: But the modern feminism has just lost sight of that. Now, here's the quote with two quotes. The first one is from Pope John Paul II in one of his writings on this. In God's eternal plan, woman is the one in whom the order of love in the created world of persons takes first root. [00:25:40] Speaker A: Beautiful. [00:25:41] Speaker B: That is amazing. Right? So let me read that again. And God's eternal plan, woman is the one in whom the order of love in the created world of persons takes first root. [00:25:53] Speaker A: Yep. [00:25:54] Speaker B: That. That. [00:25:54] Speaker A: I mean, and there's two levels to this. [00:25:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:58] Speaker A: Level of, like, woman. [00:26:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:02] Speaker A: All women have the ability to bear children. [00:26:05] Speaker B: Yes. [00:26:06] Speaker A: And a woman bore the son of God. [00:26:10] Speaker B: Yes. [00:26:10] Speaker A: So the order of love in the created world of persons is. [00:26:14] Speaker B: Yes. [00:26:16] Speaker A: Life giving. [00:26:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:17] Speaker A: But also, that's how life was given to us. [00:26:20] Speaker B: Yeah. Through woman. [00:26:22] Speaker A: A woman. [00:26:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:23] Speaker B: And can I say, too, when we think about the Easter mysteries as well, that that woman is present there like he's incarnate. He's not some. I said this the other day. He's not some weird divine flatmate. It's like, oh, where do we put Jesus? I'll plonk him with Joseph and Mary. Put him in their house. No, it's the incarnation happens through her womb, and then she's there through his ministry. And his first miracle is at her. Her interceding on behalf of the guests. And then at the very end, she's there at his. The conclusion. And in fact, what does Simeon say? He says to her, you know, you'll be part of this, too, because a sort of sorrow will, when he's just a baby, will pierce your soul as well at the beginning of Luke's Gospel. And so. Yeah. That, you know, family matters and woman is so essential. Can I suggest a third layer here, too? And that is the woman who don't actually have children for whatever reason they are. Also, can I suggest that the order of love also in the creative world, I think, really does take root in them in a profoundly motherly way as well. [00:27:21] Speaker A: Yeah. She says that further on, or maybe before, I can't remember, but she talks about woman is kind of created to care for others. [00:27:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:31] Speaker A: And I feel. I really identify with that when I read it. I can't remember the exact words she used, but I think I talk to you sometimes when I get overwhelmed. It's because I've got like six people's. Six other people's schedules in my brain. [00:27:41] Speaker B: And you're not. [00:27:42] Speaker A: My day doesn't revolve around what am I doing, where am I going? It revolves around. [00:27:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:47] Speaker A: And. And when you're kind of in a day where you're not having such an easy time embracing that and kind of your spirit kind of rails against it a little bit. Well, what about me? [00:27:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:55] Speaker A: Why can't I just think about me? [00:27:56] Speaker B: Schedule. [00:27:57] Speaker A: Yeah. 100. But my schedule revolves around everybody else's schedules. Revolves around care for other people. And that is true for a mother, but it's also true. I see this in my single friends. You know, one of my good friends, she's often talking when I have conversations with her. She hasn't got her own children, but her concerns are for her sister, for her parents. [00:28:16] Speaker B: Yeah. Amazing. [00:28:16] Speaker A: It's always outward looking. It's always other people looking. And I don't think I'm not having a go at men at all. But I don't think men are built that way. No, we're not to the same extent. [00:28:27] Speaker B: I think that's why certain things in certain professions get done better when men are just being men and doing the job. And at other times, other things get done better when women are being women and doing the job. Because there's just a different set of. There's a different ontology. There's a different vision of reality at work. [00:28:44] Speaker A: Well, the instinct, I think even just the very instinct is different, isn't it? [00:28:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:47] Speaker A: This article was great because it made me think of something that I listened to when I was sort of 18, 19. I don't think I've ever told you about this. No, it was a talk by Alice von Helder Brand East. [00:28:56] Speaker B: Carry on. I do like Alice. [00:28:58] Speaker A: Probably the first Catholic philosopher I really ever listened to. A talk by. And I had it on cassette. [00:29:02] Speaker B: Oh, gosh. [00:29:03] Speaker A: My age. [00:29:05] Speaker B: Did you get your pen and paper at your quill pen and writer release? [00:29:08] Speaker A: I don't know where it was recorded. I don't know where I got it from. [00:29:10] Speaker B: Dear Mistress Alice, I have thoroughly enjoyed your musings. [00:29:14] Speaker A: Excuse me. [00:29:14] Speaker B: No, sorry, I wasn't that old. Sorry, I'm only kidding. I've still got Cassandra. [00:29:17] Speaker A: Alice von Hildebrand was a Catholic philosopher, wife of left Belgium just before the war. A second wife of Dietrich von Hildebrand. [00:29:26] Speaker B: Yes. [00:29:26] Speaker A: Now never had children of her own. [00:29:28] Speaker B: His book is worth reading. He. He was. Escaped the time of Hitler's persecution. His memoirs are worth reading. Cuz he was a bit older when they got married because his second wife, obviously both. [00:29:38] Speaker A: I think she was a bit older as well to be honest. [00:29:40] Speaker B: But there was a. Quite a. There was a bigger age gap. So she was younger than her, much younger. But they. His first wife had died and the memoirs are amazing cuz they're like a real fascinating insight into all the same problems that we have today in the politics of the church. [00:29:52] Speaker A: Even her like. So this talk was kind of about the privilege of being a woman and she actually wrote a few years after that. Yeah, a little. It's like 80 pages long or something. You can get it. I've actually found a PDF. I don't know about the legality of putting it in the show notes. I have found a PDF online a bit. So she worked at a. [00:30:12] Speaker B: What's the title of it? If people want to Google. [00:30:14] Speaker A: Of being a Woman. [00:30:14] Speaker B: The Privilege of Being a Woman by Alice von Hildebrand. [00:30:17] Speaker A: So she worked at a secular college because the Catholic ones wouldn't employ her because she had a German last name. Oh yeah, that was real trouble. Yeah. But she. This, it's perfect for this article. It links in really well. The first half she basically kind of unties all the knots of feminism and why feminists don't think there's a privilege of being a woman. And the second half she talks a lot about this maternal privilege and it's really beautiful. She talks about a talk that St. Edith Stein gave. [00:30:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:45] Speaker A: Where she started with this kind of hypothetical. Hypothetical situation where if you have a bunch of women and a bunch of men and in a room you've got a bassinet with a baby in it. [00:30:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:55] Speaker A: And a computer, generally speaking, the men will all run over to the computer and the woman will run to the baby. [00:31:00] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:31:01] Speaker A: And she said but the men will know that the woman have chosen the better part, but they still want to be with the technology. [00:31:06] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. That's so true. [00:31:07] Speaker A: Man made technology. [00:31:08] Speaker B: We're trapped in the sense in that regard. We know that the path of nurturing a child at home is better, but we're also stuck in this. This other thing of I guess the curse, you'd say, having to toil the ground. [00:31:19] Speaker A: But I listened to this talk and I think it really formed me when I was 18 or 19 to understand the beauty of womanhood. And she talked in there about the installment of the Human Person and how it takes place in a woman's body at conception and how a woman carries two souls in her body while she's pregnant. Like, I just, I remember as an 18 year old just thinking, that's amazing. Like, that's actually. Yeah, you kind of can't beat that. [00:31:44] Speaker B: No. [00:31:44] Speaker A: Like, no, can you? [00:31:45] Speaker B: I mean, what, what was the Empire. [00:31:47] Speaker A: State Building or the Brooklyn Bridge compared to that? [00:31:49] Speaker B: It's, it's just that's why men do those. [00:31:51] Speaker A: She talks about that. She talks a lot about how we've put this emphasis on achievement and making things and building things and doing things and getting better and. And you know, even today you can see it with like. Well, now we're like, how high can we go with AI? [00:32:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:32:03] Speaker A: But we still can't make a soul. [00:32:05] Speaker B: No. [00:32:06] Speaker A: And we still can't make a soul in another person's body. [00:32:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:32:09] Speaker A: You know, and that's the pinnacle of achievement. And that's what the beauty of womanhood is. [00:32:14] Speaker B: Yeah. It's fascinating. Even someone like Frederick Nature, whose whole philosophy is obsessed with power and self creation and, and he had this thing he, he basically accused every other philosopher of. Basically their philosophy is just inferior because it's all just their own pathologies working themselves out. My. Of course he exents himself unspokenly. It's not my own pathology. Mine's just the best. But ironically, that's exactly what we see playing out in his life. Because initially he's like, oh yeah, pro woman and woman's education. But then when women, they're not really that interested in him, they start spurning him. He just becomes quite misogynistic. So it's again, he goes back to that sort of power thing ironically. And it's all about him proving himself and exerting himself. It's the masculine trap in a sense. He's got to, you know, he's got to be the dominant one to. To be strong and to prove himself. And yeah. [00:33:02] Speaker A: I'll never forget after Eleanor was born, when I sat on the couch for four weeks fitting a newborn and you built a fort and I was almost like, oh. He's like, look what I can make. [00:33:10] Speaker B: Yeah, look at this. I built a kids playground accessory. Yeah. Katie's like, hello, can you hold the. [00:33:16] Speaker A: Baby for five minutes? [00:33:18] Speaker B: Can you hold this thing I made? Let's read the second quote because I think it's quite beautiful, the motherhood. This is again, PO Jumble ii. She's quoting the motherhood of every woman. I think that's important. Every woman, not just mothers, every woman are understood in the light of the gospel is similarly not only of flesh and blood. It expresses a profound listening to the word of the Living God and a readiness to safeguard this word, which is the word of eternal life. And he's quoting John 6, verse 68 there. For it is precisely those born of earthly mothers, the sons and daughters of the human race, who receive from the God. Sorry, who received from the Son of God the power to become the children of God. And he quotes John 1:12. There a dimension of the new covenant in Christ's blood enters into human parenthood, making it a reality and a task for new creatures. See 2 Corinthians 5. The history of every human being passes through the threshold of a woman's motherhood. Crossing it conditions the revelation of the children of God. So that's how important it is. It's essential to it. And you do realize that, like, the crisis of fatherlessness is a bad problem so far, thankfully, the. Well, kind of, I should say we are starting to get into motherlessness territory now because of awful demonic uses of technology in some areas. But thankfully, this is still in a minority. But the. The problem of fatherlessness, that's a problem. That's an evil. But really, you realize you can't really have a problem of motherlessness at its deepest core. Okay, a mother can abandon a child, they can be unloving, but a mother can't just walk away totally without. Even with the technological intervention where they use a surrogate to buy a baby or to acquire them as a product, you still have. Have to have a mother in that process. It's quite mysterious and profound, isn't it? You know, I mean, sure, you say, well, you still have to have a father, but. No, the father can be. No, it's a very different kind of process thing. And so I guess, yeah. What is a woman? A woman is the most. I was going to say, you know, the most profound and beautiful of creatures that God has made. And that's not to belittle men. I don't want to make this sound tr. I think some people can. Can be a bit trite and they forget men have a role as well. But there is something profound and important about that vocation that matters. And therefore it's not a free hall pass to do whatever you want, because that's the danger. People go, well, yes, I'm special and I'll just do what I want. No, that. That profound vocation now has. Requires much of the, you know, to whom much is given, much will be asked. [00:36:05] Speaker A: Alice von Hilderbrand again talks about women being a mystery. Yeah, see if I can find it. [00:36:11] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a. I mean, every man probably is sitting there thinking to himself, what you're telling me that women are not a mystery. Yeah. You tell us what Elephant von Hildebrand. [00:36:21] Speaker A: Says the woman is more mysterious than her male companion. [00:36:24] Speaker B: That's true. [00:36:25] Speaker A: Yeah. And then she says she talks a lot about. A bit more about motherhood there. And then she says if little girls were made aware of the great mystery confided to them, their purity would be guaranteed. The very reverence which they would have toward their own bodies would inevitably be perceived by the other sex. [00:36:46] Speaker B: Wow. [00:36:46] Speaker A: She talks about how men, men can read women's body language well. And that they. In perceiving women's mystery. [00:36:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:56] Speaker A: They would take their cue from that. [00:36:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:58] Speaker A: And approach them with reverence. [00:36:59] Speaker B: And I, I. Look, we don't want to. There's this fascinating whole other debate in our culture about, oh, you're blaming women. You're putting all the responsibility on them and, and, and, you know, for, for keeping purity up. No, no, that's not what we're saying at all. That's a simplistic narrative. We both have our part to play in this. [00:37:14] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:37:15] Speaker B: But there is absolutely. If it is true, we are going to say that the humanity passes through the veil of womanhood, then that does mean that if the veil of womanhood is distorted or removed, then humanity will be affected by that. You can't just sort of pretend. It's just, it's. It's. We. Yeah, we. We both. And I think that's a beautiful way. [00:37:37] Speaker A: Of saying it's a 3D vision, I think, of woman is actually of saying, like, you're a mystery because, you know, we're fearfully and wonderfully made. Both sexes, both genders are. But in terms of what women can do with their bodies, it's a mystery. [00:37:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:53] Speaker A: And it's to be revered. [00:37:55] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's ironically, again, we go back to what's happened. Liberalism has just divorced everyone from everybody and everything else. You're just an individual in your own little silo, choosing your own way. But I'm sorry, if you want to understand your masculinity, you can't do it without woman on the journey with you. If you want to understand your femininity, you can't do it without men on. [00:38:15] Speaker A: The journey with you. Understand? With the light of each other. Yeah. [00:38:18] Speaker B: It's just, it's so, I mean, and that should be an obvious truth, but we are so philosophically, theologically stupid now and, and deprived. [00:38:28] Speaker A: You're kind of hamstrung by what you're about and not Allowed to say, we don't get it. [00:38:31] Speaker B: Yeah, we don't get it. And we think, oh, that person's a bigot. Or even worse, is the sort of. I find the condescending Christian person who's like, oh, no, they just haven't read the right authors when they say stuff like that. You know, it's a. We're in modern times now. It's very different. [00:38:44] Speaker A: It's like this person, like upper class. [00:38:48] Speaker B: If you're ever criticizing me on Facebook, just know that I'm hearing your voice in an upper class posh. [00:38:54] Speaker A: That's how I meet everybody. Yeah. [00:38:56] Speaker B: No, Brendan, that was Star wars was. [00:38:59] Speaker A: Not to finish with this paragraph about the spiritual reality of mother. [00:39:04] Speaker B: Yeah, there's this thing on a positive. Let's do that. [00:39:06] Speaker A: So it says the spiritual reality of motherhood is the call or vocation of every woman, whether or not she bears children in her own body. Each woman, by virtue of being the type of human who is the place of welcome for others. Whether or not she does or can actualize this potentiality in the context of a fallen world, is called to spiritual motherhood. It is not limited to those who are nuns or offered as a consolation prize for those who cannot have children. It is the primary way that a woman lives her womanhood. Metaphysically, a woman is a place of welcome for others, whether or not she physically does or even can do so. [00:39:38] Speaker B: Yeah, that. That's. I mean, that's so true. And as I said, in a workplace, I have had blokes tell me, for example, they're on teams and they had a. A female on the team, for example, and she took maternity leave. And so it's just blokes around them for a brief period. And they said, man, we actually got all our tasks done and we didn't have to talk about what was going on at home. And, you know, and see, that's the dynamic. Whereas the woman in the workplace wants to know, you know, how. How are you? How is your emotional state? How is your family life? You know, whereas blokes are like, okay, did you buy enough widgets today? And who's got the spanners? You know, like that. That's. Yeah, it was very different. A funny. Yeah, so that's great. I don't know if we answered the question, what is a woman? [00:40:18] Speaker A: But we didn't answer that. But we did answer, do women have a universal vocation? Yeah, yeah, that was already answered. [00:40:23] Speaker B: Yeah, I think we got to that. [00:40:25] Speaker A: I was just, Alexander Branch does a better job than us. [00:40:27] Speaker B: Yeah, I've realized and I've madly scrolling down the page looking for what I gave the title of this episode and it was what is a woman? And how can families make the most of Easter? So, yeah, we didn't really answer the what is a woman Christian? But we got. I think we gave you some good meat for the meat to think about. Meat on the bones. Yeah. Let's move on now, Katie, because you're about to hear a little theme song. In fact, if we pause the music. Maestro, please. Now that music. Of course, Katie, that rather awkward transition. Listening. Those listening might have thought, oh gosh, he was pretty slick this time. It's because I actually just forgot about the music and realised I have to actually double back and somehow alert them to the music. So I shouldn't have told you that. But Katie, that music means that basically we are now going to talk about our moment of goodness, truth or beauty and our Christian, Christian scriptures. Yeah. Have you got a scripture from the Hindu scripture? No, of course it's the Christian scriptures. What else are we reading? But yeah, a scriptural reflection for the month. And our goodness, truth and beauty. Our moment of goodness, truth and beauty. So do you want to go first? What is your moment of goodness, truth or beauty? [00:41:46] Speaker A: So I went on a Lenten retreat. [00:41:49] Speaker B: Yes. [00:41:49] Speaker A: You rearranged yourself like a one day one. Wasn't it a one day, like a five hour retreat? Yeah, so mums can afford five hours. Even then I was like, who's gonna do the laundry before I leave? [00:41:59] Speaker B: You came home and the house was on fire. [00:42:00] Speaker A: So, you know, everybody was still alive. I did have to cook dinner, but that's fine. [00:42:06] Speaker B: We'll talk about that later, after the episode is over. [00:42:09] Speaker A: Anyway, it was really cool. There were just a couple of speakers and there was more group time and nice food I didn't have to make, which was awesome. And usually when I'm at these things, I've organized them so it was quite nice to sit and just be like, I'm not in charge, to be present. Who's next? [00:42:23] Speaker B: Where's the food? [00:42:23] Speaker A: Who's making me a coffee? Yeah, it was great. One of the speakers was really great. She was. Well, they're both really great. Just saying. But one in particular really struck me. She was actually an extern sister from the Carmelites. So if you don't know what that means. The Carmelites are an enclosed community, so they don't. They enter the convent and they don't leave. But the extern sister is the one that can take people to the doctor and Go and get groceries. And there's a lovely photo she put up of her taking a chicken to the vet, which I thought was adorable. With a sore leg. [00:42:51] Speaker B: If they need a dozen beers, you know, celebrate Easter, she can do the beer run. That's probably. That's probably a bit sacrilegious. That's the bloke in me. [00:43:00] Speaker A: People have to give them beer, babe. [00:43:01] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that's true, actually, isn't it? Yeah. [00:43:04] Speaker A: So her, in her talk, she talked about the statue of David. And although if you've ever, not ever looked at close ups of like the back of his hands or his hair, like, it's incredible. Like, it's a massive statue, it's really tall and it's very, very detailed. Like, obviously Michelangelo was quite a skilled sculptor. [00:43:22] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Something else. [00:43:24] Speaker A: Yeah, it's amazing. And apparently they asked him when it was unveiled, well, how did you know, like, how to carve that? How did you know how to get David out of there? And he said, I just took away everything that wasn't David. And she was likening this to the way that God chisels us. [00:43:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:41] Speaker A: We're all masterpieces in the making. And he just chisels away and sometimes he has to take a big chunk off and that's a bit painful. And sometimes it's just little, like, nibbles with a sharp tool, you know? And I loved that imagery. And I also loved, not so much the fact that I came home the rest of the week, I felt like I was being chiseled by our nine year old. [00:43:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:57] Speaker A: In fact, I messaged my anchor, my fiat anchor, and I was like, I'm being chiseled. [00:44:01] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:44:01] Speaker A: Into a masterpiece. And I don't like it. Yeah. But it was really, it really helped to reframe that, like the hard things that happen to us, if we can look at them as like, this is an opportunity to be chiseled, to have like my veins made a bit more. [00:44:15] Speaker B: Realistic or whatever, you become more authentically human. The real. [00:44:19] Speaker A: You're becoming more as God intended you to be. Yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah. [00:44:23] Speaker B: My moment of goodness, truth and beauty. It's not quite that profound and personal. [00:44:28] Speaker A: Well, that was Sister Lauren. That wasn't me. [00:44:29] Speaker B: It was great. But mine is from a book called Heaven in your home Letters and guides. So this is actually a little book for families living a Christian life. It's a beautiful little thing. But there's a quote in this that. That stuck out to me the first time I read it. It's been sitting on my desk for a while to talk about one of these episodes. Let me read to you from the section of the book. Years ago, we were on a road trip and stopped for church on a Sunday morning at a beautiful old Catholic church somewhere in New Jersey. The parish was run by a missionary priest from Poland, and since we met and fell in love in Krakow, we were eager to speak to him. So, you know, all perfect timing and beautiful happy coincidences. Good morning, holy family, he belted out as we approached him after mass, pushing and pulling our five little ones along. For a good long moment, we couldn't speak. We looked behind us and tried to process his greeting. Holy family, was he beholding an apparition of Jesus, Mary and Joseph? But no, he was addressing us. We had never thought of ourselves as a holy family. But his cheerful confidence in us was contagious. As we felt tears of joy springing up, he smiled even more as if to say, yes, that's what I said, and I mean it. And I just thought that's such a beautiful way. Like we. I'm going to be speaking to a family conference in Australia in a couple of weeks time and I think this is. It just really resonated with me that we often forget the sacred and profoundly wondrous journey that we are called on as family. All we see are the challenges. All we see are our own ineptitudes and failings and the parenting things we don't get right. And we miss that we are called to something truly sacred and holy. And it's a very image of who God is, a family is. It's so essential that he was born into a family and his ministry comes into the world through family. Like. Yeah. And if you're, you know, a husband, a wife, a mum, a dad, a son or a daughter, a brother or sister, you're part of that. You're part of that profoundly mysterious holy and sacred institution. It's such a beautiful thing. And I think it's good to be reminded that because our culture, while at times it says what can we do to help families? I don't think it actually. Well, it doesn't. It doesn't recognize the sacredness of family life. It just doesn't. It treats it as sort of. It's a lovely and awesome thing to have if you choose it. But to see it as sacred, I think really changes the whole game in a big way. Just. I love that. And that priest is saying that to them. That was what that family needed to hear that morning. So, yeah, just beautiful stuff. What about Your scripture reflection, Katie. [00:47:07] Speaker A: So mine's from. I saw yours was from Psalms. Oh, mine is also. [00:47:11] Speaker B: We've got a psalm off going on here. [00:47:13] Speaker A: Mine's often from Psalms, because I do. I do love the Psalms. And this came from a. From the readings on Thursday last week. [00:47:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:23] Speaker A: I've been reflecting on a little video I watched where it was actually an orthodox priest for a. Do they have friars? An Orthodox monk. Yeah, one of them. [00:47:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:33] Speaker A: Was talking about. [00:47:34] Speaker B: They definitely have. [00:47:35] Speaker A: How in Lent we focus on our sinfulness and trying to overcome our sinfulness. Right. [00:47:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:41] Speaker A: And he was saying, look, we're nearly at Holy Week, so don't, like, let that be your only focus. In fact. [00:47:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:48] Speaker A: You say. And especially in the Catholic Church, I think we need to be quite careful in our language around this in terms of. We say sorry for our sin, we confess our sin, then we move on. [00:47:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:59] Speaker A: And that was really good message in terms of, like, you don't just sit in there and go, oh, I'm such a sinner. [00:48:03] Speaker B: No, as far as from the east is from the west, God has thrown us in. [00:48:07] Speaker A: We've got to acknowledge that. Yes, we need his help. We need his grace. We fall and we need his help. But he was saying, then put it aside and remember his mercy. [00:48:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:16] Speaker A: And the psalm that day was, he remembers his covenant fever. The Lord remembers his covenant. It just made me think of those two things. [00:48:23] Speaker B: It was like 123, 105. [00:48:25] Speaker A: But I mean, it might be 123 as well. [00:48:27] Speaker B: No, no. Okay. So I knew it was in the hundreds. [00:48:29] Speaker A: I had to look it up. But it was. Yeah. It made me think of that whole concept of like, you know, if we stay in that miserable. I'm a sinner. [00:48:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:38] Speaker A: We're kind of not remembering that God has a covenant with us. And we'll remember it further, that whole plan of salvation, you know? Yeah. So the. It goes like this. The verses I was going to read. He is the Lord our God. His judgments are in all the earth. He remembers his covenant forever. The word which he commanded for a thousand generations. The covenant which he made with Abraham and his oath to Isaac and confirmed it to Jacob for a statute to Israel as an everlasting covenant, saying to you, I will give. Saying to you, I will give the land of Canaan as the allotment of your inheritance. So, yeah, just that promise of God that. [00:49:15] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. He is. God never forgets God, never. That's great. I've also got the Psalms, Psalm 18, and this one struck me for a Slightly different reason. So I'll read it to you. The heavens proclaim the glory of God, and the firmament shows forth the work of his hands. Day unto day takes up the story, and night unto night makes known the message. No speech, no word, no voice is heard. Yet their span extends through all the earth, their words, to the utmost bounds of the world. And this is the bit that really stuck out to me. There he has placed a tent for the sun. It comes forth like a bridegroom coming from his tent, rejoices like a champion to run its course. And at the end of the sky is the rising of the sun, to the furthest end of the sky is its course. There is nothing concealed from its burning heat. Now what I thought of, particularly in those last couple of verses was something that Friedrich Nietzsche wrote and he was totally wrong about. Friedrich Nietzsche also talked about the sun was the opposite. Yeah, and basically Friedrich Nietzsche sort of mentioned him already, but his philosophy was, no, God is dead, we have killed him. And he's, in one sense, he's celebrating this because he's an atheist. He, he proudly wears the badge of the Antichrist. He thinks that's a hilarious name for himself. And he wears that like a badge of honor. And so he's saying, God is dead. We have killed him. We are the new gods now. We will create our own meaning in the world. And this is the whole idea of the Ubermensch, the strongman, the overman who will lead us forward. Not this outdated Christian morality with its fixation on compassion and mercy that basically says that's a master slave mentality. Because he says, you know, who needs compassion and mercy? The slave does, because they're weak. But you know who doesn't need compassion and mercy? The master. Cause he's strong. So we should want to be like the master. And so it's about power, it's about strength, it's, you know, and we self creation. And there's a passage in which he is actually critiquing the Enlightenment thinkers. But he is, he talks about the sun and he says, no, the sun is now unshackled from the sky. It doesn't need to rise in the east and settle in the West. It's unchanged. It can go wherever we want it to go. We are the new gods now. In other words, we are the masters of the universe. And here's the psalmist saying, no, no, no, we're not. And I just, it reminded me of that again, that in actual fact, this psalmist has not only hit the nail on the head and is telling the truth, whereas Nietzsche is lying. But also, this psalmist has discovered the true source of meaning. There is a rhythm by which their day is set. There is a reality. There's a transcendent mystery to all of it. They find their meaning in relation to that. Friedrich Nietzsche says, no, the son is just. You know, he doesn't mean literally, obviously, but, you know, the world is now just your plaything, and you'll. You'll create meaning for yourself, but you can't do that. [00:52:03] Speaker A: You're just here to be happy. [00:52:04] Speaker B: You can't do that without a transcendent reality. You can't do that by. Unless you are going to give yourself outside of yourself and ultimately to God. And the psalmist recognizes that. Friedrich Nietzsche doesn't. And it's just really struck me because they were both talking about the son. And to me, this. The. The psalmist has got this right ordering of. Of. Yeah, there is an order to the world. There is a. There is meaning in this. There is a God who orders my world and my life. [00:52:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:52:29] Speaker B: And, yeah, it just. It seems so pertinent. [00:52:31] Speaker A: Beautiful. [00:52:41] Speaker B: All right, Katie, that was our moment of goodness, truth, and beauty. And we've got one question to answer today. How can families make the most of Easter? And it seems appropriate because we are only a couple of days away from it. We talked about Lent. How can families make the most of Easter? And I will drop one of my ideas in first. I've already talked about bricking my phone, and I'd recommend that people do that. Go into the section of your phone where you can set screen time limits and app limits and just set it up permanently. And then just exclude any apps you might need, like your text messages and your phone calling or maps or whatever, and then everything else you have to actually give an actual approval to before you use it, or it's just not there. So particularly going into Holy Week and the final days of. As we lead into Easter. It's just a great way of getting that off the. You know, it's not. It's not the unwelcome guest knocking at the door all the time, basically, of your life. So that was one idea for me. What else do you think? [00:53:35] Speaker A: I think, yeah, I agree with all that. The. In the fasting from the profane. So we fast from things that are not glorifying God. There's some things that are kind of neutral in there. I would have said. [00:53:43] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, so you're talking about that a couple of days before we get into Easter. Sunday. [00:53:48] Speaker A: Just trying to really enter in a little bit into that, that kind of stillness. [00:53:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:53:53] Speaker A: You know, of when Christ was in the tomb. [00:53:55] Speaker B: The great silence. [00:53:56] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Just. I mean, we're really, I think we're really fortunate and blessed in the Catholic Church with the rhyth we have of the different liturgies of the Triduum, the three days. So Holy Thursday, Good Friday and Easter Saturday vigil, or Easter Sunday morning church. [00:54:11] Speaker B: And. [00:54:11] Speaker A: And you have a way to kind. [00:54:12] Speaker B: Of follow and it makes more sense like that the Easter Sunday, the resurrection becomes really, really meaningful and starkly different from the. Because of those other days. Right. It's not just another church service then. [00:54:23] Speaker A: That's right, yeah. And we in our churches, the statues and the pictures are covered until Easter Saturday vigil. So you kind of think you, you miss them. There's an emptiness, so something missing, a sense of that. And then when you go into the church on for the vigil or for Easter Sunday mass, it's all uncovered and it's all beautiful and gold and there's a real celebration there. This is the church's new year, right. [00:54:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:54:46] Speaker A: This is our biggest party if this is the central mystery of our faith. [00:54:50] Speaker B: Well, and, and I'd say too, even if you're. If you're a Protestant. [00:54:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:54:55] Speaker B: Or some other variety of non Catholic. Beautiful. Great to have you listening, but I'd encourage you get along and take your family with you to a holy Saturday night Easter vigil. That's the celebration of the resurrection. You'll see fire. You'll hear between three and five different readings from the Old Testament and three and five psalm responses. Before we even get into the regular readings of the scriptures. You might see people getting baptized. You get to hold a candle and it's our kids. You will be asked to recommit to your baptismal promises. Do you renounce Satan and all of his empty works? Yes, I do. You know, it's. It's man, it'll be a beautiful experience for you. [00:55:32] Speaker A: It's quite a pinnacle, isn't it? And so the question is, how can families make the most of Easter? [00:55:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:55:38] Speaker A: Well, we, we like to embrace the Easter octave in our family. So it's the eight days from Easter Sunday until the following Sunday of divine Mercy Sunday. It's, you know, we've had Lent, we've had our time of abstinence, our time of fasting. [00:55:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:55:53] Speaker A: So it's party time. [00:55:54] Speaker B: In fact, it's 50 days total. [00:55:56] Speaker A: Yes. [00:55:57] Speaker B: Of Easter. Easter time, which is feasting celebration time. But eight days of the October straight afterwards. Every day. [00:56:05] Speaker A: Every day. Major high feast day. In fact, I just was talking to Nathaniel before we were recording this, and I said, let me know some of your favorite meals, because I try and cook, like, dinners that are a bit more like, hey, yay. And we'll have a bit more pudding than we usually do. And the kids have obviously got way too much chocolate. [00:56:20] Speaker B: Love my pud. [00:56:21] Speaker A: Always, always way too much chocolate. But it's not just that Sunday. We don't just have Sunday. And then we go. That's that. Now we have that continuation, that understanding of, like, hey, this is a big. [00:56:32] Speaker B: Deal, you know, so we have. Well, obviously, we have an Easter Sunday meal. And often, like, the parents will come or. And that'll be the case this year as well. Last year, we had other guests as well. And it's a big deal. It's a big celebration. There's nice. That's a roast. There's. In fact, I would say, even though Christmas is a bit more arduous because everyone turns up to someone's place and you gotta grapple with all the numbers. Our Easter Sunday, I think, is a bigger feast. It feels like, to me, it just has a bit more meaning to it. It's just. Even though it's not as many people turn out. [00:57:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:57:07] Speaker B: And so, yeah, we make the big deal of that. That's like, it really. The kids know something's different. Easter Sunday is different. And then also, I think, for us, explaining to them things like, okay, we're giving you chocolate Easter eggs, But from a Christian perspective, here's a deeper meaning. Eggs are not just chocolate consumable goods that come from the supermarket. They are a symbol of new life. And so, you know, this is. What does that mean for us? We'll think about the new life of Christ rising from the tomb and us called into that new life as well. And then the other thing is, I try and remember to say Happy Easter to people right through. [00:57:45] Speaker A: You're quite big on that. [00:57:46] Speaker B: Yeah. It's like even days later and people are like, oh, oh. Still this rando dude, this Christian guy, is wishing people, Happy Easter, everybody. Happy Easter. Yeah. Yeah. And they're like, oh, yeah. Happy Easter. And it's interesting. People do because. And it makes them. It helps people to realize it's not just one moment, and it certainly isn't for us, it's a whole lifetime. But it's not just one moment. There's a whole season of Easter because it's that important. And that little greeting might open up a Conversation with someone who's outside the Christian church. Well, I thought that was the other day. Well, let me tell you more, my friend, about what's really going on. Yeah, so. And there are other ideas as well. Do you have anything else that you think of, like what would you say to a family that they said, oh, we want to. Really want to make the most of Easter? Is that your bases covered, so to speak? [00:58:32] Speaker A: Make pudding. [00:58:33] Speaker B: Make pudding. [00:58:34] Speaker A: Lots of food. Eat bacon on Friday. [00:58:36] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, eat a lot of. Eat that bacon, baby. We do. As I said in the lead up this year, we're doing something a little different. We're having a little. What we're calling a family retreat. [00:58:46] Speaker A: Breaking all the devices. [00:58:47] Speaker B: Yeah, we are. It's not really a retreat as such, but it's a. We're calling it a family retreat. And from Holy Thursday night right up until either depending on when your family celebrates Easter Sunday or Easter Saturday night after you've celebrated the resurrection, but that through that period, we have agreed, all of us, Mum and Dad, everyone, no going on devices. Like if you need a phone call, you make, you know, obviously that's different, but no going on devices. No watching your own little shows or whatever away. So. And we've agreed we'll watch a couple of things together as a family. And so we are going to. I think by the sounds of it, it's going to be Narnia that we watch the lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe on Friday. Yeah, Friday evening. Because it's obviously got the message of the. The Passion of Christ is part of that deep magic. Yeah, the deep magic. Tonight we're going to watch the Prince of Egypt because that reminds us. I mean, it's a beautiful film, but it also reminds us of the Passover. And we are now participating in the new Passover. And. And that's what this is all about. Christ is the new Passover lamb. And so it sort of puts them in that context before we go in. And then by the sounds of it, I think on Sunday we're going to be finishing up the Lord of the Rings trilogy. You know, the great moment, the Return of the King seems very appropriate, but you could also watch something like maybe slightly older kids. The film Risen, that's a great movie. There's a couple scenes at the beginning where they're searching through a body dump, looking for Jesus's body, that maybe younger kids might not be so hot on. But there are other options as well. I mean, an episode of the Chosen, for example, or something like that. But. But just you Know, as a way of sort of pointing to the resurrection as well and. And into the gift of new life. And so, yeah, so our little family retreat is no devices. We watch a couple of relevant things together, but outside of that, there's no tv, there's no stuff like that. You know, we're going to take time, probably, you and I, to read some. Oh, yeah, I know you are reading relevant books. What's that book you're reading at the moment, in fact, Spear? [01:00:48] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I'll probably hopefully finish it AC Saturday. And that's about the fictional. It's. Yeah, fiction based on fact. The Centurion that Pierced the side of Christ. [01:00:58] Speaker B: Longinus was his name, wasn't it? And so, yeah, it's a fictional tale that's relevant to the season. And of course, we've talked about the sacred music Good Friday playlist, but we're, you know, we're. Particularly through that period. We'll even probably just go to more sort of sacred music, which just is a bit more reflective. So the. The whole atmosphere in the home. I mean, there's going to be our moments. Yeah. I don't want to get out of bed. Oh, I want to do the dishes. There'll be plenty of those moments as well. But sort of trying to give an ambience in the background as well that might help us all just notice the difference at the very least, I think, because if our kids see it and it's role model to them, they know. Oh, yeah. Mum and dad actually think this is kind of important. Maybe it is. You know, and then it sort of sets a. Hopefully an ambiance that might help them as well. And. And then when we come to celebrate. [01:01:48] Speaker A: The resurrection, there's a contrast. [01:01:50] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's a really big deal. So there's certain things that we have. I don't know if I can admit this publicly, but, you know, you're allowed a little shandy in our house on Easter Sunday. It's like it's the only time of the year you get to do that. It's kind of like, oh, yeah, it's a big deal, you know, so just. Just think about what's maybe some sort of treat or something that you could only do and keep it for that one day of the year. So it has a significance and a meaning that really points to. [01:02:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:02:16] Speaker B: The profound worth of the celebration. [01:02:17] Speaker A: You know, I know families that do the whole lolly in a jar thing. Have you heard of that? [01:02:21] Speaker B: Is that through Lent? [01:02:22] Speaker A: Yeah, they do it through Lent. So maybe every time they make a sacrifice, or every time they do something for someone else or whatever their thing is, they get to put a lolly in a jar and then they get that jar of lollies on Easter Sunday. [01:02:32] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. I remember when I was really young, a mate of mine did that. And I remember going to his house one day during Lent and looking with absolute envy. He had this massive jar full of lollies and it wasn't even finished. And I was like, are you gonna get all of those on Easter Sunday? And he was like, yep. And I was like, oh, well, I'm not gonna be putting anything in my jar tonight because I have envy in a major way. Like, I was just this young kid. It always stuck out to me. I was like, whoa. So, yeah, yeah, this. It's a beautiful time. Beautiful time. And, yeah, we should celebrate it well and proudly and loudly because it is our festival, to quote the great poet John Paul ii, again, we people of the Resurrection. And Alleluia is our song. You know, that's. We are Easter people, he said, you know, and. And Alleluia is our song. And. And so this is our celebration of that momentous and glorious moment. And obviously every Sunday is as well. But I think this should be just a special reminder where we focus on that event. And we should be like, yes, beautiful, beautiful stuff, Katie. I think that's all we've got. Do you have any wise words to. [01:03:39] Speaker A: Say, no, Have a great Easter. [01:03:41] Speaker B: Yeah, we should say that. Have a great, blessed and holy Easter. Don't forget all the ways that you can support us if you want to. Patreon.com leftfootmedia or at what are we, lifenet.co.nz org nz either. Or will get you there. The new Lamp podcast, the Spotify playlist. It's all there, really. And don't forget to share the episode with friends if you found it valuable and you think, oh, yeah, these two aren't half mad, they're a quarter quarter mad. [01:04:10] Speaker A: Gotta be a little bit mad. [01:04:11] Speaker B: Yeah, they're a little bit mad. But, you know, it's an engaging and interesting. Listen, I might share this with others. Please do that. That would be really, really helpful. Other than that, we should bid you adieu. And what are we gonna say? We're gonna say happy Easter. Can we say that yet or not? [01:04:24] Speaker A: Well, I think we did last year. [01:04:26] Speaker B: Yeah, we did, didn't we? If we don't have a blessed Holy. [01:04:28] Speaker A: Week or a Happy Easter. [01:04:29] Speaker B: That's how you qualify. No, that's how you qualified. If we. If I don't see you before. Happy Easter. So Happy Easter, everybody. [01:04:37] Speaker A: See you later. The Little Flock is a joint production of the Lifenet Charitable Trust and Left Foot Media. [01:04:52] Speaker B: If you enjoyed this show, then please help us to ensure that more of this great content keeps getting made and by becoming a patron of the [email protected] leftfootmedia thanks for listening. [01:05:04] Speaker A: See you next time on the Little Flock. [01:05:28] Speaker B: Join me in glad adoration above all things. So one trust me Ra you under his wings and so gently sustaining wonder and do what the Almighty can do if with his love he be friends you. Praise to the Lord all that all that is in me adore him, all that has life and breath Come down with praises before O Him, Let the people again gladly forever adore Him. Let the O man sa.