10. How can you remain true to your faith when you are around atheists and agnostics? How do you discipline children? How can we spiritually protect our homes and families?

[00:00:06] Speaker A: Hi. My name is Katie Malone. [00:00:07] Speaker B: And I'm Brendan, the husband, and you're. [00:00:09] Speaker A: Listening to The Little Flock, the podcast that offers practical insights about living a counterculture of goodness, truth and beauty in a world of increasingly hostile secularism and indifference. [00:00:19] Speaker B: So if you're looking to learn from two imperfect followers of Christ about how to live like the wheat amongst the Darnell, this is definitely the podcast for you. Hi, everybody. Welcome along to this month's episode of The Little Flock. My name is Brendan Malone. [00:00:38] Speaker A: And I'm Katie Malone. [00:00:39] Speaker B: For those of you who don't know us now, you've been introduced to us. This is the podcast where we have conversations about, I guess, being The Little Flock, the Wheat amongst the Darnell, living in challenging times such as we do, what does it mean to live faithfully, a Christian life, and in particular in the context of marriage, family, relationships, sexuality, all of that kind of really important stuff. Just before we get into today's topics of conversation and your questions that we're going to answer, don't forget that if you appreciate the work that we are engaged in, the ministry work, and you want to support that, there's a couple of ways you can do it. One is you can go to Lifenet.org NZ, that is our website, and you will find a donate button. It's in the main menu on the top right of the homepage. And if you live in New Zealand and become a donor to the LifeNet Charitable Trust, you will receive a tax receipt each year. You can claim back some of your donation. The other option is to go to Patreon.com Left Foot Media, and if you contribute $5 or more per month, you will get access to a whole lot of exclusive patrons only content. And that includes several hours each week of commentary on current affairs and political stuff and things like that. So there's quite a few benefits to doing that if you want to do that. And we're actually, Katie about to move to a new members only section on the website, so we're actually going to offer that a slightly different way going forward. But for now, that's the way to do it. And last but not least, I should say this. If you want to send us your questions or topics you'd like us to talk about, anything at all, we will consider, we will discuss. And you can do that by going to Lifenet.org NZ. And you will see very clearly there's an option for The Little Flock podcast. And you can click on the button on the homepage there and fill in the form and send us your I was going to say send us your details. Send us your questions and topics, and we will do our best to answer them. And you can do that, by the way, totally anonymously. So don't feel that you don't send your details. Yeah, just send your Visa card, your bank account details, things like that. [00:02:47] Speaker A: What was your first car? [00:02:49] Speaker B: Yeah. What's your favorite password? If you were going to use a password for your bank account, what would it be? Things like that. No. So lifenet.org. NZ. And please send us your questions and we will do our best to answer them. Katie, you've been away. [00:03:03] Speaker A: I have, yeah. My brain is now in the same time zone as my body. [00:03:08] Speaker B: You went to Europa. You're like that's? Amazing. You're very cultured. [00:03:15] Speaker A: Well, I always was, babe. That when you met me. [00:03:19] Speaker B: I married up. Did I tell you that time? I was in a school giving a presentation and I always do an intro, and part of my intro is to show a photograph and my family and I showed the photograph of you and me together and these girls in the front row went, Whoa, you're really punching up, aren't you, Mr yeah, okay, I am. [00:03:40] Speaker A: I feel like that should have happened more than once to be. [00:03:44] Speaker B: So very funny. Yeah. But you've been away to Europe. How was that? [00:03:49] Speaker A: That was great. Yeah. Full on. Europe is buzing. Don't anybody tell you anything different? It's taken off big time, eh? Yeah. Post COVID Blip, or whatever you want to call it. But tourism is definitely getting back on its feet, which is good to see. [00:04:06] Speaker B: I was meanwhile, back here with the because you took the twins with you. [00:04:09] Speaker A: My 213 year olds, your parents, who. [00:04:11] Speaker B: Are just awesome, generously shouted the trip that had been on hold since COVID And so finally you got to do it. And I was back here with so you took the twins and I was back here with the other three kids and I thought that it was going to just be this long, drawn out, man. When's she coming home? [00:04:30] Speaker A: Down the night. [00:04:30] Speaker B: Yeah, I really did think it was going to be like that. It wasn't. It just flew by. No, it wasn't like, yeah, man, I could actually do this without it. It was nothing like that. It was just so busy. Because I have a new appreciation for the workload that Mums put into the family home, because I was trying to work and also do Mum stuff that you do and dad stuff, and also we went away, actually. I had to do some work. I spoke at a youth camp down south at one point. So we went away and it was just amazing. The time I can't recall I'm really serious about this, I can't recall a time where a single month has just flown by so quickly. [00:05:16] Speaker A: Yeah, I feel the same. One of the girls said to me this morning, it doesn't feel like Tuesday, Mum. And I said, doesn't feel like may. [00:05:22] Speaker B: No. Yeah, it's crazy. [00:05:23] Speaker A: Apart from the weather being we're going to talk. [00:05:27] Speaker B: Yeah, I know the weather's been amazing. [00:05:28] Speaker A: Here, but we shouldn't say that because. [00:05:29] Speaker B: It'S going to it's about to turn to cursed. [00:05:33] Speaker A: I don't care. We've asked about the weather. [00:05:35] Speaker B: It is, right? Yeah, it is a very New Zealand thing. Oh, the weather. [00:05:39] Speaker A: The weather. [00:05:39] Speaker B: It's probably British. It is British. The Coronation of the King happened as well. You watched some of that. [00:05:46] Speaker A: I accidentally didn't mean to stay up, but I did. I was flicking back and forth and I happened to just flick back just as the crown was lowered onto his head. I was like, oh, I've got the important bit. [00:05:54] Speaker B: Yeah, you were really nerding out. Geeking out. [00:05:57] Speaker A: Well, I geeked out a little bit on some of the music. Some was good, some was not. [00:06:03] Speaker B: Music amazing? Well, it was kind of amazing because it's a very Christian liturgy and also it's very traditional. It's Christian. It's conservative. In a culture that has gone 120 miles now in the other direction, all of a sudden, it was like, whoa. A lot of people, it was very clear, were really quite touched by this. And you saw in England, despite what you hear on Twitter, the usual Twitter, rich white family taking all our stuff, and look at them all. They're in know all that kind of stuff. And in actual fact, when you look at the number of people who turned out and lined the streets of England and had parades and community barbecues and stuff to celebrate, it was worldwide. [00:06:50] Speaker A: I think even there was a street party down the road from us. [00:06:52] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right. [00:06:53] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think people the number of people that watched it worldwide was pretty impressive. [00:06:58] Speaker B: It's quite amazing. I think it was a moment where tradition and restfulness and festival actually met head on, smashed into a culture of self gratification and speed and busyness and noise, and everything about this was the opposite. One interesting piece of commentary I saw, and I thought this was worthy of talking about, was I saw a Catholic priest who had mentioned this, that he watched the whole thing and he enjoyed it, but he said there was a moment where the Archbishop of Canterbury was it kept happening. He was doing, like, the various blessings and crowning and all the rest of it, and his vestments would slip down his arms, and he said, you could see that he's wearing a watch. And this priest made this really interesting point. He said, I have been telling seminarians for years now, and he does this himself. Take off your watch when you celebrate Christian worship services. Because the whole point is, it's supposed to be people shouldn't have a visual reminder of time. You're supposed to step out of time yeah. And step into God's time and to rest. And it's not about our project and, okay, are we done yet? Can I get home and check the chicken in the oven? And I thought that was actually really it was a critique, for sure, but I thought it was very gentle and charitable, but I thought that was a cool little critique about Christian worship. And I thought, yeah, there's something really important in that. [00:08:25] Speaker A: What struck me was that the king was actually crowned facing the altar and in this massive big chair. So all these thousands of people in Westminster Abbey that had come to see him be crowned actually didn't see that moment. [00:08:38] Speaker B: No. [00:08:38] Speaker A: And I thought, that really spoke volumes to me. They obviously saw him being enthroned when he was from that big chair. It's probably got a special name to his actual throne, and Camilla was crowned where the people could see her. But King Charles, you actually couldn't see that moment. And it was no, that, to me, spoke volumes about what the purpose of being a king is. And I thought the Archbishop's sermon on that was also spot on about a king is crowned to serve. [00:09:06] Speaker B: That's why it was so countercultural. [00:09:08] Speaker A: Yes. [00:09:09] Speaker B: So countercultural in that regard. It should be. And even like the globe that he receives that orb with the cross on top, that whole point of that is to remind the king that he doesn't serve his own power and the power that he has comes from God. It is so important. It's the opposite of what our government thinks of itself today. It really is. And that other moment where they bring in the screens for the anointing yeah. And it's hidden, it's done in secret. When Elizabeth was anointed, the cameras shut off. They turned the cameras away for it, but this time they brought in the screens. And this is really important because it's a reminder that sacred things are modest things. There's a modesty, like, in a culture of, like, show me everything and show it to me now. Whereas sacred things, they're sort of like human sexuality is a sacred thing and it's reverenced by modesty. It's a really powerful reminder A, that it's quite and you know what? It was so much more intimate that moment than if we'd all just gawked at it with no screens. [00:10:07] Speaker A: It was like not even his wife was allowed to watch it. [00:10:09] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a paradox, because we actually were like, whoa, we're seeing something really intimate here. And it felt more intimate for us as well. It was really quite beautiful. So many yeah. What a countercultural moment. Who thought we'd be talking about the crowning of the next monarchy like that? Anyway, let's get into a couple of topics of conversation and then answer your questions, obviously, like we do each episode. The first is this this article. I thought it was worth talking about. I don't want to dwell too much on the specific case, but basically, in a nutshell, there was this incident. I don't even know why this is a media story, to be honest with you. Someone rang talkback. Someone rang talkback. And a journalist goes, oh, what do I write about today? Oh, yeah, I heard something on Talkback last night. Let's write a story about that. And they treat it like it's so serious. The New Zealand Herald rang the organizers of this concert and to get their take on it. And what this incident was, was basically a woman rang up talkback to complain. She went along to the Rod Stewart Cindy Lauper concert, both greats in their day and probably a bit of fun and get the wheelchairs and the old walkers out. And they girls just want to have a break and a sit down. [00:11:21] Speaker A: Cup of tea. [00:11:22] Speaker B: Cup of tea and a rest. But by all accounts, it would have been all their classic hits and all that sort of stuff. But this article was about this couple who went along I don't want to say the word privileged, but they purchased like ten seats for themselves or something. [00:11:37] Speaker A: I didn't read that. [00:11:38] Speaker B: They purchased a whole heap of seats so they could have a big space for them to boogie in. It's like when we go to a concert, it's like, man, we have to mortgage the house just to get two seats. Yeah, we don't go. But they bought these seats. And then this couple who had obviously were there with them, who are in that same block, turned up with a baby, sounded like a very young child, four month old baby, which I thought was kind of an interesting call. It was an all ages venue. [00:12:08] Speaker A: There's no restrictions. No. [00:12:10] Speaker B: And they brought ear muffs for the baby. And clearly they wanted to come along and rock out to Rod. And probably Cindy Lauper, I'd imagine, was their big ghostie. But this couple complained. They were there with this baby. And then for whatever happened, the dad adjusted the ear muffs and then the baby started crying, as babies who want to do and maybe didn't like Rod Stewart. And then they were like, oh, the baby wouldn't shut up and it was ruining a concert. And then apparently at one stage, the couple tried to get the security guards to get rid of them because they were dancing. And the security guards look, you made a choice to bring a baby. It was so funny. This whole thing was like and they were like, they shouldn't have had a baby at a concert. And I don't know if we'd take a baby would you take a baby to a concert? [00:12:55] Speaker A: Four month old baby. I'm like, just coming out of the fog. I'd be like, no, a wedding. We took Eleanor to a wedding when she was like, what, three weeks old or something? Yeah, but I mean, we took a. [00:13:07] Speaker B: Bit different, didn't we take we took her or was it Nathaniel we took overseas. [00:13:10] Speaker A: Yes. [00:13:11] Speaker B: Very young. [00:13:12] Speaker A: Three or four months. [00:13:13] Speaker B: Had to get a baby passport for but yeah, concert was an interesting choice. But the point is, it got me thinking, because these articles crop up from time to time. I think it's dumb to even report on this because this just feels like gossip. It's like, I went to a concert and there was this baby there, and then there are probably the other people. Like, we went to this concert and there were these people dancing and it was so dumb. And the media is like, some people went to a concert and it was totally, like, ruined. It's like, what is this weird gossip? But the point is that I reckon there's a lot of baby hatred that goes on now. You hear these regular articles. I was on a plane and there was a baby and it was crying. I reckon it feels like there's this intolerance now for children. [00:13:57] Speaker A: Yes, I did overhear someone at the airport on my previously mentioned amazing trip. [00:14:02] Speaker B: I've been to Europe, you know, literally. [00:14:05] Speaker A: Saying, I hope that kid's not on our flight. And there was one crying. And I just those poor parents. I hope they didn't hear that, because when I hear a kid crying on a plane, I just think, oh, that's so hard for the parents. We've done that. It's not easy, a long haul flight with a baby awful man. And there were a lot of kids on the flights we took, but they just behaved like kids do on a plane. [00:14:29] Speaker B: Why do you reckon we are baby intolerant in things? Obviously, there's times where it's like, okay, maybe parents need to be a bit more discerning and prudent, make wise choices. And we're like, if our child is making inappropriate levels of noise and we're in a place where it's yeah, well. [00:14:45] Speaker A: In church for a bit, there should be a boundary, and you should know if your kid falls over and gets hurt. I remember one time Nathaniel did a full header over the back of the pew just at the beginning of church, and he did that thing where they don't make noise for a second and then you know the really big noise. So I just did the old rugby ball scoop and run and took them outside and calmed them down. So you've got to know what's okay noise and what's not. [00:15:13] Speaker B: I mean, I can happily be in. [00:15:14] Speaker A: Church with kids making kid noise, and I just think, not my circus, not my monkeys. I'm privileged to be here now with kids that generally don't make a racket or can listen when I ask them to be quiet. [00:15:26] Speaker B: It's funny, I've become more tolerant since having kids. I think that's a big part of it, a culture that doesn't have enough children and doesn't value family and children having kids is intolerant of them and they see them as an annoyance. And I saw actually, a couple of different adverts have popped up. For some reason in my social media feeds, people critiquing these things for advertising contraceptives. And the adverts are like, one of them was a PlayStation that had been scrawled all over by a kid. And it was like, well, you could have avoided this if you'd just had this condom. And I was like, what a childish, insane level of selfishness. Like my PlayStation. I'm a 45 year old man and my PlayStation got drawn on it's. Like, Dude, you're a 45 year old man with the I got a video game machine because I got a son. [00:16:13] Speaker A: Is your PlayStation more important to you than your child? [00:16:16] Speaker B: Yeah, but that's it. [00:16:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:18] Speaker B: There is an intolerance growing, and I find I'm more tolerant now because we've had kids, and often I really feel sorry. I fly a bit, and if I'm on a plane and I hear someone with a kid and I know the ears and I know what you know. [00:16:33] Speaker A: What the things are their ears are. [00:16:35] Speaker B: Blocked or they don't deal with pressure, and they're too young to know what's going on because we've been through all that. And I often feel for the parents, and I often wish man, I wish I was seated close to that person so I could just say, hey, look, can I help you? Or, It's all good, you're doing a good thing because remember that flight we had with that lady who was the New Zealand actress? I'm going to Google her name right now. Gloss. Look at this. [00:16:59] Speaker A: Oh, rebecca gibney. [00:17:00] Speaker B: No TV series. Was it Elena Rogers? What's her name? Alona Rogers. [00:17:05] Speaker A: That's her, yes. [00:17:06] Speaker B: And she was that lady there. She was sitting next to us on the flight and we had the twins. [00:17:13] Speaker A: Just not bringing do. [00:17:15] Speaker B: Not poor Alona Rogers. If you remember the TV series Glass, she was in a few other things as well, I think an Australian series as well, and famous Kiwi actress. And she was sitting right next to us, and we're in the other two seats and we got the twins and they were babies, and I was a bit like, oh, man. Because two babies? [00:17:34] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. You can't just eat double the noise. You can't just feed them, breastfeed them. [00:17:38] Speaker B: No, and it's a noise fest. And they weren't overly loud, actually, but we just sort of little moments, right? And she said to us afterwards as the plane landed, and she was like, Good on you. And she actually just gave a gentle encouragement and congratulations about having the kids and traveling and well done, you. And I remember that, I still remember that it wasn't simply because it was a loan of Rogers. It was because someone had actually said, you know, like, it's not giving you permission, but it's actually good that you're here. It's not an inconvenience, it's not a bad thing, and I think we should all take that opportunity when it arises. I've done it in church a few times for people, and one lady actually cried when I did that, and I think that reminded me how important it is to actually remind people. Funny enough, this is what a pro life, pro family culture sounds like. [00:18:34] Speaker A: A bit noisy. [00:18:34] Speaker B: It's noisy, yeah. A pro life pro family church should be noisy. Yeah, that was funny, though. I go to the old Rod Stewart concert. There's a baby there. Yeah, but I think the thing is, too, that we're sort of weirdly upset about little things now, too. Like having kids helps with that because you learn not to sweat the small stuff because you walk in and they've drawn all over your walls. [00:19:03] Speaker A: It was stolen. Your pillowcases. [00:19:05] Speaker B: Yeah, that was today's moment. It's funny and it never ends. This is the thing I was thinking about because precious. Well, I often feel a little bit guilty because I think with this podcast, there's probably an expectation for some people. You guys are like experts and it's like we're really not. And you never get on top of it. You never do. And just when you think you've mastered one stage of parenting, another child goes through it and they are slightly different. Or something happens that blows it out of the water and all of your amazing learning and plans gets completely upended and yeah, it's just you never we've. [00:19:39] Speaker A: Got so much parenting still ahead of us, too. [00:19:41] Speaker B: When you're done, no, and you often feel guilty about that in this podcast in a sense that we're sort of where people on that journey with you, by the way, listeners. So don't ever forget anybody who basically presents themselves as being an expert in this area. Run away. Run away. They're not telling the truth. The truthful are the ones who tell you how challenging and demanding it is to be. [00:20:07] Speaker A: I think the people that have written books that we would respect, that have parented children and are still parenting children, even they would acknowledge that doesn't mean your children are going to turn out perfect. For want of a better word. [00:20:20] Speaker B: They're not. [00:20:21] Speaker A: Doesn't guarantee success. [00:20:23] Speaker B: I think it's remember Christopher Luxon got in trouble with the complaining the peanut gallery like to throw veggies, rotten veggies at everyone. And they were complaining about that interview he gave where he talked about the stages of parenting. It was a very basic trite sort of thing. And at this stage you're a police officer and this stage you're a counselor. And I think it's based on some Christian guy in the States who just talked about it like that. And we all know what he means. But there is a certain truth. It's not the whole truth, that's for sure. It's more complex. But there is a certain truth to that. I realize now with my older daughter, my eldest daughter, who's just turned 16, which is just an amazing thing because I feel old now, but I don't feel old. I feel like I'm an immature old man. [00:21:05] Speaker A: You're only young once, but you can be immature for you. [00:21:08] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right. I'm really living that truth. That's my truth. But the senses, my relationship with her and my calling in her life is different to what it is with my seven year old daughter. Very different. And the role sort of changes. I think it's important to read all. [00:21:27] Speaker A: Things to all men, all children. [00:21:31] Speaker B: Speaking of, this is a really great article. I won't read you the whole thing, but what I'll do is I'll post a link in our show notes today so that you can actually go and check out this article for yourself. And if you're listening on any of the usual platforms like Spotify or itunes, if that's how you're listening to this podcast, if you go to our let's see if I can find the link here. Castos the little flock. This is terrible, isn't it? Googling as we go. Castos. Here we go. So I'll make sure I put this link in the show notes as well. But it is the little flock. So it's the little flock. Castos.com and I'll put that link in the show notes. But if you yeah, actually, how do I do that? If I put in the show notes. [00:22:16] Speaker A: You might not see it sounding very fancy. [00:22:18] Speaker B: This is terrible. Let me give you the address. The little dash. And it's not the underscore, it's the dash. So it's the middle. The hyphen. Little hyphen. Flock. Castos. Castos.com. That takes you to our Little Flock podcast page on our podcast platform. And you just click on the episode and you see the full show notes. And so I'll make sure that we put a link to this article there. If you're on one of those platforms where you can't see the links in your show notes, so some of them don't give you the full notes when they publish the podcast asked. That's a very roundabout way of saying that this is a really good article and we should read it. You should read it. We're not going to read the whole thing. But it was from Focusonthefamy.com, and it's about the problem of what they call overwhelm. Is overwhelm hurting your marriage? I'd say, is overwhelm hurting your family? Because it could be. Or even is overwhelm hurting your life? Let me read you from this article. We're not going to read the whole thing. It's got some great tips in it. That's why we'd recommend checking out this article. It says, Are you and your spouse, or even you without a spouse, living in overwhelm? We typically greet one another with, Hi, how are you? The common response is predictable. Busy. Keeping busy, as if being busy is the goal. That's a great point. [00:23:38] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:23:39] Speaker B: How often look, I do that all the time. I've been really busy. And I know as a Bloke, I really struggle with this. I tend to try and sort of prove my worth byliness well, it is I think it's a I don't know, man, it's probably a people problem now. But it is a Bloke problem in particular, I think. Look, guys, I'm really what have you been doing? Yeah, I'm doing stuff, so I'm valuable. [00:23:58] Speaker A: Human doing not a human being. [00:23:59] Speaker B: Yeah. Support my ministry, because my ministry is doing lots of stuff or it's effective. It's like, yeah, but if you look at the ministry of Christ, the cross doesn't look very effective, does it? And one of his disciples has betrayed him, sold him for the cost of a slave. Another one has denied him three times, one's at the foot of the cross, the rest have run away. That doesn't look like effective ministry at that point. But it is the most effective thing that ever happened. [00:24:29] Speaker A: When he took a nap in a boat while there was a storm. [00:24:31] Speaker B: Yeah, it is. Now, that's not an excuse to be like, well, our family's in disarray and we don't do anything, and so we're being really like with Jesus. No, there's obviously a balance here. But it's true, though. A busyness and productivity is an actual fact. It is loving that. It should be the goal. Anyway, let me carry on with the article. When I moved to the country, the elderly farmer across the road asked, when do you sit out? [00:24:55] Speaker A: This is very like, when do you sit out? [00:24:58] Speaker B: When do you sit out? When you go and sit out on a porch with those cleats. That's when I learned that in the Midwest, couples sit on their porch in the evening, watch the Canadian geese against the sunset and wave to the occasional neighbour who passes by. Husband and wife touch base over a glass of lemonade. Nice cool drink of lemonade on the back porch. Iced tea. Yeah, I'm coffee, John. Coffee night. The drink. This is great. Anyway, it's gone too far. I didn't even own outdoor cheers. The demands of career. Making a home, nurturing relationships, minding your health and the well being of those who depend on you. Connecting to spiritual community, staying current on finances and world events. Rotating tires, flossing teeth, cleaning the refrigerator coils and furnace filters add up to over full schedules, toss on holidays, open houses, sports games, music recitals and getting in some needed vacation days which require extra preparation. Overwhelm takes an exacting toll on the marriage relationship. Well, I'd say family relationship. And any person actually insidious overwhelm competes with and often wins. In the daily war between the important and the urgent, couples are swept up, keeping up with the trends, with peers and with new developments. What would it take for you to live more in serenity and less in overwhelm? And before we answer that question and explore this a bit more, there's this great little analogy that they've got here. They talk about the British rowing team. The story goes that the British rowing team's performance was not producing wins. Something had to change. So the team adopted a practice to filter everything they did personally and as a team through the question, Sorry, will this make the boat go faster? So does participating in Friday night's frat party before Saturday's race make the boat. Go faster? Will binging on snack foods make the boat go faster? Does consistently skipping sleep make the boat go faster? What are you doing that prevents you from making progress towards your goals for your marriage? Ironically, that question even is a little bit of a problem, isn't it, in a sense? Do you know what I mean? [00:27:17] Speaker A: I actually felt like, oh, just another thing I had to have goals about. [00:27:19] Speaker B: Yeah, your marriage is not a project. We often talk about it in that way, but I think that's a trap. It's a relationship. [00:27:29] Speaker A: That's right. [00:27:30] Speaker B: It's a relationship of love. It's a humane, messy, complicated, communal commitment. And obviously, Christian marriage is a covenant, but it's not a yeah, I know some people love that. They love the language of goals and. [00:27:47] Speaker A: More power to you a fan of the goal language. [00:27:49] Speaker B: I think there's a place for goals we've sort of got but there's a place for goals and we've got a few at the moment. We've sort of got these loose sort of DIY goals we're working towards, I. [00:28:03] Speaker A: Think, the house and don't spend all. [00:28:05] Speaker B: The money and it's like do this room, paint that wall, and there's sort of like these goals like that. Sure. Or we're saving for a house. But I do really wonder and my instinct is to push back against the marriage as a project, I think, because. [00:28:23] Speaker A: It adds to it feels like just another thing on your list and it should be above that. The list should serve the marriage. The marriage serve the list, if that makes sense. [00:28:35] Speaker B: And I think it reduces marriage and family to function and to the productivity problem again. Well, is our marriage actually that good if it's not productive? Well, what productivity is not the end goal here. It is to be more like Christ, and that means to love more faithfully and more fully and to actually, to quote unquote, function well in a marriage is to love well. Right, yeah. And it might be I mean, there's a place for goals, though. [00:29:10] Speaker A: We're not like not bashing all the goals. [00:29:12] Speaker B: Yeah. And we're not like girls are bad and if you do that, your marriage is doomed. No, there is a place and you might have we could all benefit from that. Right? They're talking here about overwhelm. Well, we're not spending enough time together as a couple. What's a goal we can set to spend more time together. [00:29:29] Speaker A: And that would be something that I would say, recommend that we found beneficial for us is that we try and get away once a year together, just the two of us, just to have that time. Because you can have those conversations that are a lot harder with kids around and with all the things that go into a family life, all the commitments and all the busyness. To step away from that is quite valuable. And I've talked to you before, the bit about sitting out struck with me because I've talked to you before about my parents having what they call their quiet time. And they've had that like, ever since I couldn't remember as a kid, we were put in their bedroom with the radio on, whatever program was on national radio on that evening at that time. And we would listen to that while they had their quiet time. And then as we got older, we just knew, like, you just don't go. [00:30:17] Speaker B: In the lounge, don't go in the lounge. [00:30:18] Speaker A: And they were just having a cup of tea and chatting. But it probably contributed to them not I mean, I'm sure there were times in marriage work was harder than others with overwhelm and busyness and both of them working, but I'm sure that time contributed to them functioning well as a couple and having those conversations. And we do it in the evenings now. We try and check in and say, well, what have you got on for tomorrow? [00:30:39] Speaker B: I think it's an area where we're probably weak, though. [00:30:41] Speaker A: Yes, we're more honest and say, I'm. [00:30:42] Speaker B: Actually really feeling yeah, I don't think we carve out enough time regularly just to be and sit with each other. I wonder if part of that too, is because my ministry work for those who don't know, I've got an office here out the back of our house and so we see each other a. [00:31:01] Speaker A: Lot through the day. [00:31:02] Speaker B: Yeah, but what I've realized is there is also that need, especially in the age of Netflix and devices. And it's know, often you'll sit down and watch something that I'm not watching, and I'll watch something else, or I'll go and do some work, or like, I guess, once upon a time, you would have all just sat in the lounge together and done something, and someone might have read a paper or someone might have listened to the news or watched a show or you might have watched TV together, or we're very individualistic now. Our technology allows us to be more so. And I think yeah, that is a challenge because I think one of the things I'm becoming conscious of is that you can and it's really important that when you have children, you give your life and your love to your children in a very profound call of self giving. It's the greatest school of love, but very challenging. It's a beautiful cross. But what that means is I think couples can get into a dangerous pattern whereby they don't make time to actually just regularly be with each other and they're giving order themselves individually to their children, which is a very good thing. But those two things combined means once the kids get old enough and then they leave home, I'm not surprised to discover some marriages fall over at that point or they forget how to be just the two of them together. And I think that really is important to consider in a marriage. But I feel, too, that we I reckon we're struggling with overwhelm, if I'm honest at the moment, because I feel what's happened is that there's so many demands now, and ironically, it's through the kids and the schools and the social this and sports that, and it just feels like I now long for those two week school holiday breaks. [00:32:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:50] Speaker B: Where it's like there's no thing to go to each night and everyone's one. [00:32:57] Speaker A: Of my friends said to me yesterday, oh, I wouldn't mind if I had, COVID right now I could do seven days not having to leave the house. Yeah, there's something in that. Not that lockdown was my favorite time, but I do have fond memories of that less pressure, the feeling of less pressure to be, to do, to go yes. Overwhelm that isn't there? [00:33:20] Speaker B: Overwhelm is evil, I think. [00:33:21] Speaker A: Yes. [00:33:22] Speaker B: Because if you think about the reality of our lives, the Christian understanding is that they are a moment of preparation for an eternity with God. And what is that? Eternity with God? Well, we will rest in eternity and we will festival, we will celebrate and we will be at rest in God. So it is rest is our eternal home and our eternal destination. So rest now is a really important preparation for that. And what happens? We live in a culture now that it's just overly everything's busy, busy, busy. So if you're not sleeping, you're busy, and if you're not busy, you distract yourself with a device or a thing that distracts you. And there's no contemplation, there's no deepness, there's no rest, there's no peace often, there's no quiet. [00:34:02] Speaker A: No quiet, very noisy world. [00:34:04] Speaker B: Yeah. And even things that are sold to us as good and empowering are actually ultimately are not. So they're all about the extreme busyness and reducing the human experience to function. So it's like, oh, yes, Mums, you can go and be in the workforce and get a job, and that's empowerment. But ultimately, what that's really about is creating more workers and more consumers for the market that's ever it's never sleeping, never ending. We have Sunday trading. We now want all of our holidays gone so we can consume, consume, consume and be consumed. And it's sold to us as empowerment, but it's just total overwhelm and it's so destructive. [00:34:41] Speaker A: Yes. I had a conversation with a friend towards the end of last year and she said, I don't actually know how we're supposed to do everything we're supposed to do in a day. Like, how are we supposed to fit in? Cooking, healthy meals, exercising, working from the top of the list, to be honest. But we are expected to fit in a lot of things into our day. And then you get to the end of the day and you say, well, I didn't have time to sit down. No, that's not right. No, there's something wrong, dysfunctional way, and especially if you don't have time to sit down, and pray, have that quiet time with the Lord, which in my opinion is one of the only ways you can cope with the pace of life. I've noticed quite often the only time I get to myself throughout the day is actually in the car. Now, if I've got the kids in the car, it's pretty noisy. [00:35:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:27] Speaker A: So once they're out of the car, the instinct is to put the radio on. But I've noticed that I've stopped doing that as much or I'll turn it off more because that sometimes is the only chance I get in the day, especially at the beginning of my day, to actually really be and sit with the Lord and just have a conversation with him. [00:35:45] Speaker B: Yeah, it's funny I did that this morning because I have been doing a bit of planning and thinking around this new development for the LifeNet Charitable Trust for the ministry and developing online formation tools and stuff like that and thinking about the technical aspects of it. And my first instinct when I got in the car to drop the kids off this morning was to put on some spotify or something and just put on the radio, right? But instead I didn't and I spent that time in solitude and it gave me the space to get bit more creative and the ideas started flowing and it wasn't like I then got back to the office and I was like, oh, got to think about this, I'm under pressure. It was like already the process had begun and it begun in the quiet and the rest. [00:36:27] Speaker A: And I think there's something in that because your driving is quite mechanical, so your brain's, part of your brain is occupied with that. Your other part of your brain has the space to kind of yeah, it's. [00:36:38] Speaker B: So true and this is where I think it's so destructive. Well, not there's lots of ways it's destructive because our rest is really a weapon, it's a tool we have against the tyranny of that busyness. Absolutely. But what rest does? We know that the brain, when it is bored, is more creative and we know that you need creativity for problem solving. That's when your problem solving skills develop. So for me, it's like it's no wonder that people actually are kind of dumb. I don't mean in a derogatory way. It seems we'd make a lot of people make a lot of dumb decisions and don't think and they're buying into weird ideologies that are so blatantly, obviously false. How did that happen? And one theory is indoctrination. It's indoctrinated people. That's part of it, for sure. But I think some of the mistakes and ideas are so dumb now that we're just sort of blindly accepting I think it's busyness is a factor. We don't have the time to contemplate, we don't have an inner discerning voice that's telling us to think and question and we don't have the ability to discern well because what is discernment. It's a problem solving exercise. I've got these two or more things in front of me, which is the right one. And if you don't know how to do that because you haven't developed those skills, because you're not having moments of rest is any wonder, and you're stuck in busyness. So what do you do? You just go, well, I don't know, the latest thing that I'm supposed to have a moral opinion on and I'm too busy to contemplate what's the majority doing? [00:38:09] Speaker A: What are the celebrities saying in the paper today? [00:38:11] Speaker B: Yeah, so you see how it's a real trap. And as I said, it's everyone. I don't think it's just couples. I don't think it's just families. I think everyone has the challenge of overwhelm in front of them at the moment, and we've got to fight hard against it's. Demonic, I reckon. I really do. And I use that word seriously. It is diabolical. Because if rest is our final home and rest is our calling, then what is the devil going to want to do? He's going to want to sell us the exact opposite idea and tell you. [00:38:40] Speaker A: It'S good because then you might hear what God wants you to hear. [00:38:42] Speaker B: Right? And here's the flip side. The flip side, of course, is laziness. It's like, I'm totally preparing for heaven by doing nothing. No, that's just laziness. But I guess the problem tends to be, we think, and this is the modern answer, increase your personal productivity. You're busy, you're overwhelmed. Okay, get up at 04:00 A.m., and then you won't be as busy. It's like, yeah, okay, I get it. Getting up early does help you write, and that prayer is essential. But come on. No, that's all you're doing now, is you're destroying even more of what should probably be your personal sleep time. You know what I mean? It's your fault that you're too busy. And so the answer to being too busy and too overwhelmed is to take even more time and carve even more out of it. It's like, that's not really the answer, is it? [00:39:31] Speaker A: No, I don't think so either. [00:39:33] Speaker B: Yeah, well, there's a good article. We recommend it. Read the whole thing. It's got some great tips in there. A. [00:39:37] Speaker A: Did you enjoy yeah, I did. I thought it was really good. [00:39:39] Speaker B: Yeah, very positive. [00:39:42] Speaker A: I could talk about that for a long time, I think, especially coming from a mother's point of view, the mental load from holding all those people in your head that need to be cared for. And by that I obviously mean your husband and your children. But also we've got friends going through things. We're always caring for people. It's sort of your tendency to remember that peace isn't an external thing. Peace is an internal movement in your heart. You can choose to stay peaceful while you're surrounded by the turmoil, the whirling tornadoes of overwhelm, and you probably need to enter into that peace and say to yourself and ask the Lord, what are the things that I actually have to say no to at the moment? It doesn't have to be a no forever. And I think they say that in the article. The answer is no for now. This is a good thing, but at the moment it's not the right thing. [00:40:36] Speaker B: For me, not the right. [00:40:37] Speaker A: And I can't take that on. [00:40:39] Speaker B: Understand your state of life and understand what the priorities are, what your priorities. [00:40:42] Speaker A: Are, importance in the things that are urgent. [00:40:46] Speaker B: Yeah, that's good because that'll tell you what your calling is right now. People often struggle with that. And I meet people and they say, oh man, I feel like I should be in this ministry or evangelism thing or whatever is I'm like, dude, you are married with a young family. [00:40:59] Speaker A: There's a season. [00:41:00] Speaker B: You've got a more important vocational calling right now. It is to love and to raise those children, then look at what comes next. And if you can fit stuff in sure. And people can, and we do, obviously. What's your priority? [00:41:13] Speaker A: Family. If something's going to take me away so much that it doesn't serve the. [00:41:17] Speaker B: Family, then there's a real problem there. And this is where the Scriptures, too have great wisdom. I've always said this. And it's becoming so much more obvious as the culture collapses that the Christian scriptures have a very practical wisdom. And what do the scriptures tell us? That the voice of God. Where is God actually found? He's found in that still small silence. It's not in the noise, the fire, the flash, the thunder. It's in the still small silence. That's where you find God. And if you don't cultivate that, a lot of people I think what's happening today is I have this theory a lot of Christians are running around 100 miles an hour, and then they're also trying to turn faith into this sort of productivity exercise. Yeah. [00:42:03] Speaker A: Faith today. [00:42:03] Speaker B: Yeah. And they struggle with their faith because they treat it like almost like a thing, like a magical superpower. But faith is actually something has to be cultivated. The object of our faith is Jesus. We have to nurture and cultivate that. Reading the Scriptures, learning and growing and maturing. And what happens? We discover our faith grows when we do that. And you need time to do that and you need rest, you need quiet, you need stillness to do that. You can't just jam that into a million other things each day and then go, oh, my faith is really struggling. Yeah, it's because your faith is compartmentalized. It's not your whole person. It's just another box that you tick each day. [00:42:44] Speaker A: That's right. A friend of mine said to me a year or two ago, something that a priest, I think, had told her, he said, reading is not praying. So yes, read the Scriptures, but that doesn't mean you've prayed. Yeah, it's a good thing but you've still got to pray. Yeah. [00:43:01] Speaker B: Great. [00:43:01] Speaker A: Still got to actually converse. [00:43:03] Speaker B: Yeah. We might look at that in a future episode. How to pray? Well, because I think that's important. Really, really important. So that musical interlude means that it's time for our moment of goodness, truth or beauty and for our scripture reflection for the month. Katie, would you like to go first? What's your moment of goodness, truth or beauty? [00:43:35] Speaker A: Well, I mean, obviously I saw lots of things that were I went to. [00:43:40] Speaker B: Europe, I saw some beautiful art. [00:43:43] Speaker A: I saw some really awful art as well, which made me think the beautiful art was more beautiful. [00:43:46] Speaker B: Wow. Yeah. Awesome. [00:43:48] Speaker A: Amazing. It's everywhere. Contemporary art. But when I looked back on that month that flew by, one of the things that really stuck out, which was probably my highlight of the trip, was actually reconnecting with my Italian host family cool. That I lived with when I was 17, for a couple of months, and visited again when I was in my 20s, when I lived in Rome, name. [00:44:10] Speaker B: Dropping, all the places. Did I tell you? I didn't. Just went to Europe. I lived there. [00:44:15] Speaker A: I lived there. [00:44:15] Speaker B: Yes, I've been there and lived there. [00:44:17] Speaker A: My parents kept saying to me, don't worry, your Italian will come back. And I was really anxious. But it actually really did. [00:44:21] Speaker B: Did it? [00:44:22] Speaker A: Yeah, it was amazing. Anyway, my host sister met us at the train station and took us on a tour, and we only had one night. My parents came, host parents came out and we had dinner together, and I was quite apprehensive because I hadn't seen them in 20 years. And I was like, am I even going to understand anything they say? Are we going to be able to have a conversation? Is it going to be weird? Then meeting my parents and the girls, it was absolutely amazing. It was such a blessing. And it's funny when you think we saw all those beautiful places, they're all worth seeing. All that history, the whole wider global context for the children to see. Everything amazing. But the best part was seeing the people. [00:44:59] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, that's awesome, right? That's a reminder that community. It's not about the thing you do or see. It's about the communal and the relational gosh, that's awesome. Well, I had a moment of goodness, truth, or beauty planned that was actually from a song that I was introduced to, but I decided I wouldn't do that. I'll save that for next month. It's a really beautiful song, by the way, and we'll talk about it next month. Because something else really dawned on me the other day, actually, after I'd written some notes for this show, and that was our eldest daughter, as I mentioned, turned 16, and I was reflecting on the gift of her life and yeah, what a blessing. There's something also about the fact that I'm now the father of a young woman who's a teenager. It's beyond doubt now. I think you hit 16 and it's like, beyond doubt. Someone reminded me yesterday the driving lessons come next, and they do. And one thing that really struck me is potentially we've only got another couple of summers at home with her. It's part of me sad, but there's a beautiful sadness in that because it's also her. What I'm really looking forward to is seeing her grow into the vocation and calling that God has for her as she steps out. And there's something yeah, it's hard because it is also sad. There's a sadness. Yeah. It is a bittersweet thing. But I was just reflecting on her life and just the maturity of I was looking at some photos the other day of her and through different stages and ages and even the changes that have happened in her life in the last three years and how it really is amazing. She is now just this amazing young woman. And even a couple of years ago, she was still a girl. Yeah. And it's amazing to see. There's something very beautiful in that. Like I said, it's a bit of sleep, though, because, you know, Daddy's little girl is, you know, is growing up. But she also one thing that really hit me was, and I often remind her of this, is that it really hit home to me again on her birthday was the fact that she was the one who made me a dad. Like, all of our kids are cool and we love all of them equally, but she was the first and she was the one who, when they brought her out to me after she was born, to hold that she was the one who changed my life forever. The others added to that, and beautifully so. But when held her in my arms and I just looked at her and I cried like a baby. And she's a baby and she's not even crying. She probably think, what the heck is going on here? Put me back in. Put me back in. But I'm holding her and I just know everything in my life has changed. I will never be the same again. And that was her. And she's now 16. [00:47:46] Speaker A: Yeah. Crazy. [00:47:47] Speaker B: And it was also a kind of a challenging reminder. Time flies at speeds. That's the sound of rain outside of the laundry. No, but time just yeah, 100 miles an hour. And I can't believe she's 16. Amazing, right? Scripture reflection for the month. Katie Duff, give us your wisdom. Did you reflect on any scriptures when you were in Europe? [00:48:15] Speaker A: This is not one from Europe, but this is something it kind of ties back to what I was talking about before, and I think I've mentioned this before as well, been reflecting a lot on how everybody's made in the image of God and everybody is created by God. And being in Europe, like, I remember being on a train that was absolutely chalker and just being like, literally all of these people were made by God. Kind of being a little bit taken aback by that. But I was reading a reflection yesterday from a woman I follow on the Facebook and the Insta. [00:48:48] Speaker B: Is she a mum blogger? [00:48:49] Speaker A: Why, yes, she is, but she's hilarious. Also, her blogger name is I've forgotten it now. Honest Toddler, or something like yeah. So I think she's actually some kind of, like, messianic Jew or Judaism into her Christianity, and she's recently converted or come back to her faith in the last couple of years, but she just writes some beautiful stuff. And she was talking about a reflection she was having with the Book of Ezekiel and how there was this whole passage about everything was in the likeness of such and such and how she was talking about trying to describe God as impossible because everything's in the likeness and you can't actually say it's a little bit like this, a little bit like that, but it's actually more did. [00:49:35] Speaker B: You know that that was actually just can I interrupt you? I shouldn't, probably, but I will. That was actually a hugely important moment in Christendom and a very important debate. And sadly, I think we slipped away from it in the modern west. And Thomas Aquinas was really big on this point that even the language we use to describe God, it's imperfect. So when we talk about Him as like a being, it doesn't mean what we are as a being. And we need to recognize that, have the humility to recognize that. In actual fact, we can't even though we think we do, our language still can't comprehend who God is. And sadly, there was another way of thinking. It was like, no, we can. Our language can explain these things. And it was a really important point. So that's interesting to hear that. [00:50:20] Speaker A: Yeah. And then she went on to talk about how that made her think about how humans are made in the image and likeness of God and how beautiful that is and what an honor. And she finished with just a little bit from Psalm 139, which is one of my favorites. At our wedding, we did, which says the bit about, you created my inmost being. You knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Your works are wonderful. I know that full well. And I just think that's so beautiful. Like, we have to remember that every encounter with every person, it's not just us, it's not just me. Yes. Oh, yes. I'm made in the image of God actually remembering each person, no matter how they're behaving that day or how they've treated you in the past or any history or anything fearfully and wonderfully made. [00:51:14] Speaker B: Yeah. Wow. That's beautiful. Great reflection. Since we had our last episode. This is my scriptural reflection. We had Easter, obviously, and we celebrated the resurrection. Beautiful most I mean, we do that every Sunday as Christians. But the most important celebration is on Easter Sunday when we celebrate that moment very deliberately. And I was reminded of a scripture, I think you might have talked about this on a previous episode, but it's John chapter 20, verses three to eight. And I thought I'd read it because it's a bit of fun. It's also quite family. This is peak family life, really, in many ways. But also there's a really important lesson in this. So it says this. So Peter and the other disciple started for the tomb. So they've just been told by the woman who've been there first, they're the first witnesses to Jesus'resurrection and that they've been told, look, he's not there. So they start out for the tomb. Both were running, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first, which is hilarious. There was like two plugs. Get out of my way. Oh, man, I'm getting there first. He bent over and looked in at the strips of linen lying there, but did not go in. Then Simon Peter came along behind him and went straight into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there as well as the cloth that had been wrapped around Jesus'head. The cloth was still lying in its place, separate from the linen. Finally, the other disciple who had reached the tomb first also went inside. He saw and believed, and I love this for a couple of reasons, and I know you like this. They had a running race. I think there's a race, there's a competitive streak going on. And that just is peak family. [00:52:47] Speaker A: Not only did they have running race, but he was like, I'm going to write it down, and I'm going to write it down twice in this part. [00:52:52] Speaker B: Did I tell you a by the way, I got the first guys, you know, Simon Peter. Well, I outran him. [00:52:58] Speaker A: I let him go in first, but. [00:52:59] Speaker B: I got there first, which is just I love, love. There's something beautiful about the scriptures. Are they just so authentic in that way? But it's also like, I think every morning I'm sitting in the front seat. It's that kind of thing. But there's also this really interesting reflection in this that the guy who sprints and seemingly gets there first doesn't actually complete the calling. He doesn't actually and this reminded me of Paul. I think it's in his writings to Timothy, isn't it about I don't run the know, I discipline myself so that I don't run the race in such a way as I end up discovering that I've been disqualified. And you sort of get a sense of that here this guy arrives and obviously there's a deference to Peter for sure and his place of authority amongst the disciples. But also there's something more here in a sense. Why didn't he go in? And maybe he was scared, maybe. When it mattered most. So he'd done this amazing look at him glamorous. He outrun the other disciple. Impressive. This guy's got the goods. But then when it matters most, he stops, he holds back, he doesn't complete the mission. Peter goes straight in, bit slower to get there, but he got the mission completed, in a sense. And I know this is a small thing, but I think there's a challenge in that for all of us. And he's the one, in a sense, you'd say Peter then becomes the first to really after the woman who've seen this. He's the first to meet the truth of the Resurrection. He hasn't met the risen Lord yet, but he has in another sense, because Christ is not here and it's, well, Christ is now risen then. So he's met the Resurrection. He's encountered the Resurrection first, but he wasn't the most glamorous. He wasn't the yeah. The challenge for all of us say is just keep plodding on, keep you, keep going to the tomb, keep going to the tomb and don't worry about what others are doing around you and meet the Resurrection head on. What's that saying? We are Easter people and alleluia is our song. And so day in and day out, in season, out of season, there was just something really beautiful about all of that. So that was our moment of goodness, truth and beauty for this month's episode. And now we're going to get on to your listener questions. And we've got three really great questions today. Katie, the first is this how can you remain true to your faith when you are around atheists and agnostics? And I think this is a challenge for anybody if you're in a workplace now. And I think it's probably getting worse too, right? Because as the culture falls into a state of decline, it is collapsed. And as that collapse becomes more pronounced, a lot less is known about our heritage and our Christian patrimony. People probably don't even know the basics of things like Easter or Christmas. And so I think it becomes more pronounced. And also the radical, extreme individualism and ideology is now so intense and aggressively hostile that it's not just, oh, okay, you do something different on Easter Sunday. It's like, I'm more enlightened, or you're a bigot, or it can be really quite challenging to be in that space. So what would you say if someone said, how can you remain true to your faith when you are around atheists and agnostics? [00:56:31] Speaker A: I'm not around a lot of atheists and agnostics, as much as other people might be, because I'm not in an office secular office environment at this point. I think for me it comes down to just treating everyone with genuine love and empathy. I think people notice how you treat them and how you behave around them, and then that might lead to questions. I know when I was working at the university, before we had Lucy somebody said to me after a couple of months, oh, you don't swear very much, do you? [00:57:06] Speaker B: Yeah, people notice that now. [00:57:07] Speaker A: Yeah. And I thought, no, not really, I guess. And that conversation led to more conversations and opened the door for just dialogue of genuine evangelism and wasn't necessarily ever that I was going to convert anybody or these particular people, but they were open to hearing, no, but that's evangelism. [00:57:28] Speaker B: It's the relationship where Christ is present in the communing between you and that other person. And then the Holy Spirit does the converting, not us. I think that's one of the traps of evangelist instrument. Yeah. We think that we are doing the converting, and so we've got to have the right technique. No, we're not. Holy Spirit does the converting. [00:57:44] Speaker A: He's got to say just the right thing and then the light bulb will come on. [00:57:47] Speaker B: They didn't convert. So what have I done? No, no, stop it. [00:57:50] Speaker A: I mean, there definitely are people out there with a real gift for conversion. Sure. [00:57:56] Speaker B: Well, for talking, I guess, and communicating. [00:57:59] Speaker A: Truths about the faith, sharp minds and all that. [00:58:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:58:02] Speaker A: The best I can do is my actions. [00:58:04] Speaker B: That's a good point. So actions really matter, I think, thinking about how do you remain true to your faith? Well, I think what you've got to have is I think there's got to be it depends, I guess you've got to discern. This is one of those things where you've got to discern what hills should you die on, first of all, especially in an aggressively secular culture like ours. So there might be 20 things each day that you could talk about and even push back against, but in actual fact, it might not be conducive to the sharing of the faith and loving this person to do that. It might be better to actually show a different side. And I actually heard a testimony recently about a guy who had this experience with a lady, and she didn't push back against him and wasn't any great sort of apologist for the faith, but she just loved him and kept loving him, even though he was toxic and hostile towards her and her faith. And then there was this amazing moment of really self giving love on her part, and she left this particular workplace and she thanked him for how he had helped her to grow more in her faith and that he was brought to tears, and that changed him. And I think there's something about that love really matters. I think you really have to be clear about what it means to be Christian. It does mean to be set aside in a sense. I don't mean hidden from people, but your life should not look like an atheist or an agnostic life. And this is one of the great traps, I think a lot of Christians today, they live what you might call a practical atheism, so they go to church on a Sunday, but then the rest of their week doesn't look or smell any different and that's not the way it should be. Like, you were talking about a practical Christianity, your life. There's towels that people pick up on, they're like, oh, this is different. So I think that's essential. And I would also say that you need to have your lines in the sand and you need to draw those lines in advance. Apparently, this is the trick for anything at all where you have to draw a line in the sand. The people who have thought about and discerned before they get into the situation and drawn their line in the sand very clearly before they get into the situation, they're far less likely to cross the line when it comes up. And if you aren't clear about what it is to live in authentic Christianity and you're around atheists and agnostics a lot and Friday night rolls around and they're like, right, let's go and get boozed or let's go to the strip club with the boys from work, or whatever it is. If you haven't drawn your line in the sand, you are more likely to get dragged into that and then carry the shame and the guilt and have to repent and all that messy stuff. And it's much better and it's very important that you do have and I think that's actually quite key. The last thing I'll say is this, if nothing else, Alexander Salza Nietzsen, I'm a huge fan of his maximum live not by lies. And you might not always be able know, speak truth to your atheist or agnostic friends, but one thing you can definitely always do, and you should never stop doing is you should never live lies. So if they're going to do something that's a lie, don't join them. They're going to say something that's a lie, don't join them in the lie. They're telling obscene jokes. I know, it's really tempting, particularly, I think, for us blokes, don't join in. And that's hard. That was always my trap. I always fell in that area. I would join in because I was like, yeah, I loved the camaraderie of it and I loved the but it was the content. It wasn't the camaraderie that's problem, it's the content. So draw your line in the sand. [01:01:38] Speaker A: And then don't live the lie as much about what you don't do or don't say as about what you do. And I think, to be honest, 90% of it is listening. [01:01:47] Speaker B: Just listen to them. [01:01:49] Speaker A: People just want to feel heard. And often, if I think particularly, I mean, I was blessed to have people that were open to discussion and I've never had anybody kind of come at me for my faith in the workplace, but it's been a while since I've been in a workplace. But people were always very respectful. But I know I can think of one friend's, husband in particular who does have a hard time at work and gets raised on for his faith. And I think a lot of that is possibly coming from a place of hurt on their part. He will obviously be feeling hurt as well by the way they're treating him. But just to be the forgiving person and to be the listening ear. [01:02:27] Speaker B: I think there comes a point, though, too, where you have to decide to stand up, or is this even the right place for me to be? Because I'd imagine now it's pretty clear, like, in the academic field, oh, man. I think trying to be a Christian in that workplace and the ideology is so toxic and it is so authoritarian, and there might have to be a point at which you say, look, this is actually ruining my marriage, my family life, my personal well being. I'm constantly in a state of toxicity. I knew someone actually, who was working for the church who left for that very reason. They were working in a I won't name it, but they were working in a Catholic diocesan office in ministry, but they felt the toxicity of it, and they felt because they were constantly struggling each day with a lot of people around them who weren't really living an authentic faith. So this is not even it's almost like they're faith agnostics rather than atheists and agnostics. But this situation was so challenging for this person that they found their faith was becoming they were constantly being cynical and being almost like this person was described almost like being at war with their fellow Christians because of this, and they decided, no, this was not right, and they left, and that was the right decision. Sometimes it's the right call to actually say, well, maybe this is not where I should be. But that's a whole nother discernment kettle of fish. Which brings me to question number two, and this is a small one. How do you discipline your children? Wow. Yes, katie, how do you discipline your children? [01:04:03] Speaker A: Your children. [01:04:04] Speaker B: I'll tell you about my children. [01:04:05] Speaker A: Your children is when they need your son. [01:04:10] Speaker B: Yeah, we're doing a lot of that. I have to say. We're doing a lot of that at the moment. You're like, you come down the hallway and you're like, oh, your son, go and deal with it. And then I'm, five minutes later, your son, you go and deal with it. It's hilarious. We're just, like, constantly trading, swapping in and out, subbing in and out for the discipline role. [01:04:28] Speaker A: Well, it was different depending on the ages, stages, and behaviors. [01:04:32] Speaker B: Yeah, so that's the first thing. There's not a template. There's not a formula. [01:04:38] Speaker A: One size fits all, family to family, no judgment for any unless beating them up, then it might be a little bit, yeah. [01:04:45] Speaker B: Well, that's not discipline, though, is it? Because discipline we should define that. Discipline is the act of loving correction. And if you're beating the snot out of your kids? Are you loving them? No. [01:04:55] Speaker A: That's right. [01:04:56] Speaker B: No, I disagree with that. [01:04:57] Speaker A: Yeah. It's a good first step to ask. [01:04:59] Speaker B: But there might be moments of physical discipline. But if you're beating children, that is clearly not loving. [01:05:04] Speaker A: Yeah. The main way we discipline at the moment is by saying you won't get game time on Thursday. [01:05:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:11] Speaker A: And that seems to work quite well for Nathaniel and Eleanor, because our children, we try not to have screens most days of the school, days of the week, but on Thursday, if they've done all their homework, they're allowed a certain. [01:05:23] Speaker B: Amount of screen time. [01:05:25] Speaker A: Screen game time. So the threat of losing ten minutes of it is pretty good, generally. [01:05:33] Speaker B: So that's a good discipline. So that's a reward based discipline system. Or a loss of reward. A loss of privilege. Yeah, loss of privilege. A punishment type thing based on something that they want to do. I know another system I read about. I don't think we've ever done this. We do sort of variations, but mild variations of it. I think probably most families would have some variation of this, but I've saw a really great example of this with screen time, actually, and this mum said to her kids, well, what was it? Every hour of chores and other things you do, you earn an hour of screen time, or half. I can't remember what the balance was, but it might have been hour for hour. But there was a ratio she had. And what happened was they earn it, so they earn the privilege by doing the thing. And in a sense, there's a discipline in that. They're creating actual discipline in their life. [01:06:23] Speaker A: Yeah, there's definitely something in that. I have been thinking about that recently, that maybe we need to reframe the game time to you got ready for school on time, you did this, then you earn yourself your ten minutes or whatever. [01:06:34] Speaker B: Because I think this is the challenge. It's not an either or, it's a both and thing. That discipline. Some people take this approach. Yeah. But you've got to teach your children to take responsibility and use their own agency. Cool, for sure. But also, children are children, and agency is something that it's not a matter of formation, it's just a foreign concept, because they're not mature enough for that, really, yet. And you need to be the prison warden or the police officer, so it's a bit of both. And so I think what you need to do is you start when they're younger. The tendency is you have to take probably a firmer hand, but you must always couple that. And we've always done this with trying to every time we do that, give them the opposite, which is, well, what should you have done? Or what should you be doing? [01:07:19] Speaker A: We used to have three questions we'd ask, and I can't remember any of them now. [01:07:21] Speaker B: Should you have done that? [01:07:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:07:23] Speaker B: Was that the loving thing to do. Often there's variations of it, but yeah, we do. [01:07:26] Speaker A: How could you have acted differently or. [01:07:29] Speaker B: Handled what should you do next time? Or what are you going to do next time this happens. [01:07:32] Speaker A: But that was back when we used the thinking step a lot more than we do. It was always a winner. [01:07:38] Speaker B: So discipline often develops. Each child is different, each situation is different, each family. Like you've said, if you've got a child with, for example, autism, the way that you deal with that is very different. ADHD yeah, they're not going to respond to the same thing. So you just got to take all that into account. We don't on our older ones, but when our kids were younger and it was a necessity. There is physical discipline has to play a role sometimes for the safety of the child. And so, yeah, that's a factor. But I think in some ways you have to get creative, but in other ways it's not rocket science. And we've tried to make it rocket science in the modern world. It's like, have you read this book? 50 different tips for how to discipline your kids properly. And the latest psychological trend has got to be applied. But humans are humans. And I think this is where conservatism is such a beautiful thing, because conservatism teaches you to learn from the wisdom that's come before and to really attach your wagon to that. And so that's what we've done. We recognized. You know what, there's a lot of learning about the human person that other people have done before us. And some modern pop psychologist is not going to discover some new thing about the human person that we didn't already know when it comes to morality and behavior. And in fact, whenever people try and sell it that way, often it's because they are selling an ideology that doesn't. And what does an ideology do? Well, an ideology takes an idea and tries to make reality fit the idea. Instead of starting with reality, Christianity starts with reality and what is real and goes more deeply into the mystery. And the other thing about ideology is what it does is it has this overarching comprehensive vision for what the world should be. It's like utopian and human beings are like clay. And if you just mold them right, then they'll fit it. Whereas Christianity would say, no, human persons are certain things. Are you talking about this before images of God? We're fallen creatures. We struggle with sin and our kids in particular. So there's certain things that that has ramifications for discipline. And I think there will be a place too, as, like, our eldest daughter gets a bit older. We haven't got there yet because nothing's really warranted it. [01:09:49] Speaker A: I don't think she's pretty good in general. [01:09:50] Speaker B: She is, yeah, we're really blessed. But I think we will probably have moments where we're like, look, you're grounded from your phone for a week. [01:09:59] Speaker A: Yeah. We did have a conversation about that just last week when she used her phone to emotionally blackmail me about something. And I said, well, you can have X this thing that you want, but you'll have to give your phone up for 24 hours because you've used it in a way you shouldn't have. That's not what it's for. [01:10:18] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think, too, the other thing about discipline is you've got oh, one really cool thing I heard that I actually did think was quite creative was some people, they put their kids toys and things into time. [01:10:30] Speaker A: We've done that. It's basically a photo of Lucy trying to rescue her toy. [01:10:33] Speaker B: That's right. That's right. So it's another form of being grounded or privileged denial. But it's like you're not in time out. Your toys in time out. [01:10:43] Speaker A: We put Minnie in timeout. And remember, I used to use the gobble box quite a lot. Yeah, that's true. [01:10:48] Speaker B: It gobbles up. [01:10:48] Speaker A: Gobble box was if you were asked to tidy something up or if you fought over something, the item went into the gobble box. Which was it? Nathaniel couldn't say it and used to call it the boggle box. Don't put it in the boggle box. [01:11:01] Speaker B: There were some things too. I tell you what in the gobble box. Well, the stuff up on top of that kitchen shelf, the pantry shelf. And it's like, that's been there for years. [01:11:09] Speaker A: Been tidied. Yeah. The thing hadn't been tidied. The thing got put in the gobble box, and the thing is still there. [01:11:15] Speaker B: They clearly were self attached to it. Yeah. So I think that there are certain creative sort of things that you can apply. I think also, it's about consistency. You've got to do it day in and day. And this is my struggle, probably, is I think, oh, man. [01:11:34] Speaker A: Can't be bothered. [01:11:35] Speaker B: But we disciplined the kids like last week. We'd still doing that. Yes, we are. And you have to. And it's hard because often you don't want to, and it's at the wrong moment. And I think the other thing about discipline you got to be careful of is not blaming your spouse. [01:11:50] Speaker A: You didn't do such and such. [01:11:51] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think we both have this problem. It's the human problem. It's a human condition. You might not ever say it, but often maybe it comes out in attitudes or the way we speak to each other or the way even we just think initially, it's like, oh, why isn't she dealing with it? And it's like, Why isn't he dealing with it? No, just you deal with it. Stop focusing and obsessing on the other person. [01:12:12] Speaker A: Deal with it in the moment. Unless it's something pretty serious that needs we're talking more teenagey stuff there, but that actually needs, like, a meeting with the children then, I think. Yeah. Little things. Deal with them in the moment. [01:12:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:12:25] Speaker A: You can't do it later, especially with a two year old or a three year old. [01:12:27] Speaker B: No, they'll let this morning tell me. [01:12:29] Speaker A: You were naughty about such and such. [01:12:31] Speaker B: Yeah. They can't remember it, I think, too. The other thing is that you definitely need to cool off sometimes. [01:12:37] Speaker A: I definitely do need my mother calls it putting yourself in time out. Yeah, I have 100% done that. [01:12:43] Speaker B: Come back and discipline with a cool head. That's really hard. [01:12:47] Speaker A: Very important. Especially if you might get physical. [01:12:49] Speaker B: Yeah, well, for me, for the wrong. [01:12:50] Speaker A: Reasons, you need to actually yeah, even for me. [01:12:54] Speaker B: I'm an Irishman and I tend to blow up sometimes, but I'm an Irishman, so what I'll do is I'll have a blow up and then we'll have a whiskey. Straight away, it's done you're a bit more English. You brewed on it a bit more. So we have different styles in that regard. But for me, I know there was an incident over the weekend where the two youngest were just being toe rags and I blew up big time. And I was like I literally in front of my grabbed my hair, I was like, you're making me lose my hair. I blew up. And they're like, whoa. We've destroyed him. We've wrecked him. And the challenges to try and I apologize, I said, Look, I'm sorry, guys, what you're doing is wrong, but I shouldn't have reacted that way. And I think that's an important part of it. I learned that from my dad. If you make a mistake, say sorry. Say sorry and be clear that you've shown your kids what the mistake was, that you understand. And I think also with discipline, maybe don't sweat the small stuff as well. Keep maintain consistency. But often I think we feel we have to perhaps discipline all the time, when maybe sometimes what we just need to do is stop and recognize, oh, actually, she's hungry, or he's tired. And so I need a different strategy, which is to sit down beside them and like with our youngest daughter, you'll often see me doing that, where I'll just sit down and I'll crack a joke or distract her or something and that changes the whole tone. And then we have the conversation. [01:14:17] Speaker A: She does tend to fly off the handle. [01:14:18] Speaker B: Yeah. And then we might have the conversation five minutes later and then she'll go, oh, I'm going to go and say sorry to Mum now for what I did. And that's actual discipline, because she's learned to discipline and she's funnily enough, agency is in play as well. So, yeah, gosh, that's a great question. Winded it's a long way of saying, yeah, every child is different. [01:14:37] Speaker A: We don't really know. [01:14:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:14:39] Speaker A: We're all just doing our best. [01:14:41] Speaker B: The fundamentals are human beings struggle with concupisance, the weakness and the tendency towards sin. We all are fallible and we all need to be held accountable. And your children are they are not little darlings. No ones are. They're beautiful gifts. But they're not perfect. And you've just got to work with them on that journey and each one will be different. It's just never discipline in anger, never use violence, never be extreme or malicious. I think that's a trap, too, and I've seen some of that, that sort of never if you're one thing I think, too, to think about in the modern context is are you disciplining because the child is you're deeming them even subconsciously, as an inconvenience. So you're disciplining them for inconveniencing you rather than necessarily maybe for something they've done or that they should have done. All righty, third and final question. Good one. This one actually very important one. How can we spiritually protect our homes and families? And we should probably start by saying different faith traditions. So not everyone listening is a Catholic or an Anglican or an Evangelical. There's different Christian denominations. They're going to have different, I guess, prayer tools and things like for Catholics there's, the sacramentals, we would call them, are quite important. And having a crucifix in the home that's been blessed, and having a minister of the church come with holy water and pray the prayers of blessing over your home, things like that matter. But in every family, regardless of what your Christian denomination is, definitely, I would say, get your church leadership in to bless your family home, or if not, do it yourselves, pray that prayer of blessing. But I think that's one way. What else do you think? [01:16:23] Speaker A: Katie made me think about this podcast that I listened to recently about discerning spirits. I think it was something like that. And they talked a lot about how they dealt in exorcism ministry. They didn't go into any details, which I appreciate because I don't feel like I need to know the details. [01:16:43] Speaker B: No. And that's just salacious. Funny enough, I think the devil probably loves that. It's like, yeah, you gossip about my. [01:16:49] Speaker A: Work, tell my story, watching episode, the next episode of your favorite program, isn't it? Yeah. But what they did say was some really high percentage, 90 something percent of people that come that are oppressed, not necessarily possessed, but are oppressed, have had demonic activity in their life as an influence, don't need exorcism. What they need is to live a prayerful life. That usually fixes it. So if they start going to church, saying their prayers regularly, for Catholics, going to confession and living a good, true and beautiful life yeah. See what I did there? [01:17:27] Speaker B: I see what you did there. You worked the slogan of the show. [01:17:30] Speaker A: That in itself is a protection. And this is something I know I can definitely do better in. But if we, as the heads of the household, are living a good Catholic Christian life, by extension, our homes and our families will be protected. Surely? [01:17:49] Speaker B: That is such a great point. And you've actually stolen a little bit of my thunder because I was going to say no, this is good. Great minds and all that. Great minds think alike. Great minds. Google the same thing. No, great minds think alike. I think there's two elements to it. Spiritual warfare is a thing that is, I think, often underappreciated now, and you need it. Don't get into weird kooky demons behind every tree stuff. I remember someone once sharing a testimony about the devil was really working against me. I went to the supermarket, and my favorite soup was out of stock, and the devil was really it's like, no. [01:18:23] Speaker A: But the devil did use your disappointment at that point. [01:18:25] Speaker B: Yeah, he did. And the devil made you think that he was behind us. [01:18:28] Speaker A: The great, he likes to use our. [01:18:30] Speaker B: Human frailties again, the super geddon. What would you call it, Heinzergedon? Whatever you'd call it magpocalypse, but don't start getting kooky about it. But spiritual warfare is important, I think. It's becoming more undervalued and underrated, and that's why look, I've got no doubt about this in my mean, it's absolutely true. There is a lot more evil happening in the world. There really is. It is undeniable, I think, and particularly in the Christian West in particular, which had a more strong social stability. It was never perfect, but you can see that definitely things are changing and have changed in ways that are not good. There's a lot more diabolical behavior and activity happening. So spiritual warfare matters. That really, really matters, and we need to have it, I think, as part of our regular. So family prayers. Pray those prayers of spiritual protection. Pray that the blood of Christ would protect your home and your family. Pray for each other as spouses. Pray for your children. Pray that the angels would surround your family home, get your family home blessed, all that kind of stuff. The second part of spiritual warfare, though, that often gets neglected, is that in actual fact and you've just mentioned this your disciplines are warfare, your regular disciplines. It's not about the big battle you fight. Yeah, and I mean, this is the old adage, what does Jesus say? If you cast a demon out of a house and leave it empty, what happens? Seven more come along and say, Great, an empty home. But if you instead cast out that demon and then fill your home with goodness, truth, and beauty, with Christ at the center. Sorry, there's regular prayer there's, regular disciplines. All that stuff is happening. You celebrate the Christian festivals. You're reading the Scriptures, I would say also make sure you get holy pictures and stuff and have a Bible on display somewhere in your home. The word of God. Put it there, reverence it, make it a centerpiece in your home somewhere. Make sure that when people walk into your home, they see at least one picture of Christ or something like that. Those disciplines are actually their spiritual warfare because they're shaping us into the spiritual beings that we're called to. Be. And also what it means is that the diabolic and the diabolical doesn't have a foothold. It can't get a foothold because your life, your house is full. The demons come knocking. They're like, this house is already full. And I think there's something really important in that. How do you protect your homes? Well, live faithfully. A more Christian lifestyle. I think part of it, too, is you do need to have some discernment about, well, what are we watching and entertaining ourselves with? [01:21:20] Speaker A: Absolutely. [01:21:20] Speaker B: Music wise, what are we listening to? I think that, again, don't be weird about this. My record collection has got a whole it's very eclectic, and it's got all sorts of secular musicians and really all sorts of stuff. But there are things that I wouldn't put in there. I just wouldn't. There was one album, actually, I really like this artist, and she's got real talent, but there were a couple of things on this album I knew were just so antithetical. It was just I chose and funnily enough, I chose well because about six months later, I didn't buy the album. Six months later, she was in Melbourne chanting some really weird stuff at a concert and abusing someone for just being a Christian. And I was like, well, I chose well there. So things like that. And also how you use your money and time, they are forms of spiritual warfare as well. What am I giving to? What am I investing my time into? So, yeah, that's the one that's probably less glamorous and we forget about because it's harder, but it makes a big difference. But I think the thing is, you've got to think about it, accept that there is a spiritual reality. There are angels, there are demons. The demons exist to try and undermine God's plan for you and for his plan for the world. Evil is at work in the world if you deny that reality. I heard a story once, actually. This is a great story. Someone I know was in Rome. You've just been to Rome? [01:22:45] Speaker A: I have. [01:22:45] Speaker B: I've just been to Europe. But someone I know was in Rome. They were at the Vatican because they're Catholic. They were there for a Catholic Charismatic renewal, like Catholic Charismatic prayer group meeting. And they got to meet. He was Cardinal Ratzinger. Then he became Pope Benedict. And Cardinal Ratzinger told them Someone asked them. Someone in the group asked a question, know, I don't know why they're asking the you think what do you think about angels and demons or something like know, are they real? And apparently his response that he gave was, they are absolutely real. I see them jumping out of offices and buildings around this place on a daily basis, and I was like, yeah, that's it. And I think we've got to recognize, just like grace builds on nature. That's a Christian theology, that God works with the natural to achieve his plans and his grace builds on the natural. So if your natural life is out of order, don't expect to all of a sudden be this, I'm moving in a great spiritual way. No, if your life in the natural was a know, God can work, but grace builds on that natural, you're going to be more effective in that. [01:23:50] Speaker A: Paul had to be cast off his horse and have scales pulled from his eyes. That's right. [01:23:54] Speaker B: That's right. And so there is also, I think, in the diabolical, there is a counter to that, an opposite, that the diabolical will build on nature as well. And what that means is that if in the natural there's confusion and there's a mess and there's aggression and anger, there's no doubt in my mind that I heard a story, actually, recently. Our parish priest told this story in a homily he gave just a few weeks back. A few weeks back he was talking about a guy who had died, actually, but he was in Christchurch here. He was actually involved in a lot of exorcism ministry. He was a layman and he'd go into people's homes and pray prayers and stuff. And this priest asked him, he told him about this incident when he got into a home and it was very clear that there was some diabolical issues. And he said, well, what do you do in that situation? And he told, this is our parish priest and the pastor of our congregation. And he said, he always does the same thing. He sits down and puts the kettle on, they have a cup of tea and he's like, that's the first thing you do. And he was sort of expecting some great eloquent, sort of the best thing to do. But he was like, he was thought it was going to be some I return to the prayer of exorcism and I read this scripture and then I put on my spiritual armor. He was expecting something of that ilk that comes later. He said, the first thing you do is you actually try and bring peace because the demons hate peace. Grace builds on nature. Diabolical things build on nature or the lack of the corruption of nature. And Jose said, the first thing you do if you want demons to really be in a place of unease is to end the confusion, to end the violence, the noise, the chaos in a home and bring peace into it and sit down and commune as images of God with each other. And I thought that's very profound, very profound. And that's a lesson for all of us. Righto, folks, that's this month's episode. Thank you so much for tuning in. Don't forget two important things. If you want to support the ministry work that we are doing, you can do that. Go to LifeNet co NZ or lifenet.org NZ. Either one will actually get you there. And go to the website. And on the top right there is a Donate button and you can make a contribution. The bank account details are there. If you're in New Zealand and you want a tax receipt, you can get a tax receipt each year. By doing that, you can become a regular AP donor if you want to as well. All of that really, really helps the ministry work, lots of ministry that we do, and it really, really helps. So a huge thank you to all of our donors. The other option is you can go to Patreon.com Left Foot Media, become a regular sorry, regular what's? A regular, I'm just making up words now. A regular patron with $5 or more per month and you will get exclusive access to patrons only content. I am going to be changing that and I'll make an announcement in a future episode once we've got a paywall up on our website. I mentioned it in this episode, actually. There's going to be some great formation videos available exclusively behind that Paywall on the LifeNet website. They're coming soon. And, yeah, I'm excited about what the potential for that is, so I'll let you know about that as well. But please also send us your questions and topics. We want to answer your questions. We want to talk about the things that you want us to talk about. Lifenet.org NZ again. And at the top of the homepage, you'll see the scrolling banner. Send us your questions, click on that, fill out the form. You can do it totally anonymously. We don't read out names, as you've just heard today. We don't give anybody's personal details away. Ask whatever questions you want to, anything you want to say, Katie, before we wrap up. All good in the hood. When are you going to go back to Europe? [01:27:30] Speaker A: Oh, as soon as possible. [01:27:32] Speaker B: I'll go this time with me. [01:27:34] Speaker A: I will allow it. [01:27:35] Speaker B: I will allow it. Folks, it's been awesome to be with you again. Thank you so much. Don't forget, live by goodness, truth and beauty, not by lies. And we will see you next time on The Little Flock. [01:27:44] Speaker A: See you next time. The little flock is a joint production of the LifeNet Charitable Trust and Left Foot Media. [01:27:58] Speaker B: If you enjoyed this show, then please help us to ensure that more of this great content keeps getting made by becoming a patron of the show at Forward slash Left Foot Media. [01:28:09] Speaker A: Thanks for listening. See you next time on The Little Flock.