Episode Transcript
[00:00:06] Speaker A: Hi, my name is Katie Malone.
[00:00:07] Speaker B: And I'm Brendan, the husband.
[00:00:09] Speaker A: And you're listening to the Little Flock, the podcast that offers practical insights about living a counterculture of goodness, truth and beauty in a world of increasingly hostile secularism and indifference.
[00:00:19] Speaker B: So if you're looking to learn from two imperfect followers of Christ about how to live like the wheat amongst the Darnell, this is definitely the podcast for you.
Hi, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Little Flock.
[00:00:35] Speaker A: Great to be back.
[00:00:36] Speaker B: It is good. It's the first one for the new year, Katie.
[00:00:38] Speaker A: The new year. Can we still call it the New Year?
[00:00:40] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:00:41] Speaker A: The mid new year. Late new year.
[00:00:42] Speaker B: It's our. We're late to the flower.
[00:00:44] Speaker A: It's our new year.
[00:00:44] Speaker B: Yeah. Everyone's like, where are they?
[00:00:46] Speaker A: Our new year will be after April.
[00:00:48] Speaker B: Yes, March. It's March, isn't it? In our first episode of the year, people have been clamouring for us to come back.
[00:00:55] Speaker A: Yeah. All three of our fans have told me, my mother, hurry up.
[00:00:59] Speaker B: Your mother and the guy who edits for us. No, that's me, isn't it? Before we jump into any of the great topics of conversation we've got today, Katie, just a little reminder, everybody, that if you want to send us your questions or topics for conversation, you can do that. You can send your questions via thelittleflockpodcast.org or lifenet.org nz@the top of the page, on both of those pages, you will find a link for how you can fill in a form totally anonymously if you want to, and send us your questions or topics to discuss. If you're new here and you haven't subscribed yet, please do that. If you haven't given us a rating yet and you're on a platform that allows you to rate this podcast, please do that. All of that helps the show. And last but not least, you can support the ministry work that we're doing. And there's a couple of ways to do that. And a brand new one, actually.
[00:01:48] Speaker A: How exciting.
[00:01:49] Speaker B: I know it is. It's thrilling. Number one is you can support our work by becoming a donor via our LifeNet Ministry page. That's lifenet.org nz and if you're in New Zealand and you do that, become a regular AP donor, then you can receive a tax donation receipt.
[00:02:07] Speaker A: Tax rebate?
[00:02:08] Speaker B: Yeah, tax rebate receipt at the end of the year and you can claim back a third. I'm trying to remember what that. So, yeah, that's pretty reasonable, isn't it? Or you can go to patreon.com leftfootmedia and you can become a subscriber via. Via our Patreon page. Patreon. Patreon page. Gosh, first show back and we're hard. Yeah, we're a flying start this morning, isn't it? And if you do that with $5 or more per month, then you will get access to our daily episode of the Dispatchers podcast. So if you're interested in sort of commentary, authentically Christian conservative commentary on social issues, current affairs and other stuff like that, then yeah, $5 or more per month allows you to get access to that. But there's a brand new and awesome little podcast option we've got for anybody. If you contribute any amount. The minimum is $1 per month, so $12.
[00:03:01] Speaker A: So not any amount.
[00:03:02] Speaker B: Well, yeah, any amount above $1, but like a dollar a month. That's. What's that? That's what even. Not even a fifth of a cup of coffee now, is it? Probably, or something like that. But if you do that with any amount above a dollar, so $12 a year, a dollar a month, or. Or more, you will get access to our brand new weekly podcast episode called the Lamp. And the Lamp is a scripture reflection episode. We take a deep dive into a different passage from the Christian scriptures each episode. So that's once a week. And there's exegesis, there's reflection, there's all sorts of stuff going on in there. And yeah, anybody who supports us with any amount above a dollar a month will get access to that. So, yeah, support us and get something in return.
Does it get any better? Yeah, Katie, we're here today. We're recording this on Wednesday, the 19th. I was gonna say the 12th, but that's the wrong date. Totally out of. Out of my date depth perception. It's not the start of the year and it's not the 12th of March, it's the 19th. And so in the Christian calendar, it is The Feast of St. Joseph, the foster father of Jesus. Quite an amazing like, lived a very hidden life. We have brief glimpses, but very important glimpses of him in the scriptures. And then obviously he's dead by the time Christ goes to the cross. Because Mary is given to John to take under his wing, so there's no other family members. And so. And Joseph is dead, otherwise Jesus would not have given Mary to John like that. So very hidden life. But what a model of fatherhood and masculinity.
[00:04:37] Speaker A: Absolutely, yeah. A model of bravery.
[00:04:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:04:40] Speaker A: I was thinking about this morning. I was like, how many times does St. Joseph. Have to be brave in his life, you know.
[00:04:44] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:04:45] Speaker A: Even just marrying Mary.
[00:04:47] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:04:47] Speaker A: That was clearly pregnant out of wedlock.
[00:04:49] Speaker B: Yeah. That was crazy business, wasn't it? So.
[00:04:51] Speaker A: And then, you know, the flight to Egypt.
[00:04:53] Speaker B: Yeah. Get up, go do this thing. I mean, it's already challenging enough. And by the way, you need to flee to Egypt.
[00:04:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:00] Speaker B: And keep your family safe. But what a protector, a nurturer. Great humility, obviously. Courage. I mean. Yeah. Fathers, what a great role model. Men, husbands, great role model. And very challenging. I think in our age, too, particularly our age of social media. And it's like, hey, man, look at me.
[00:05:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:19] Speaker B: I did a thing.
[00:05:19] Speaker A: I built a table. That's why he'd be like, look at this chair.
[00:05:22] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm just humble, bragging about all the carpentry work that he's doing.
Yeah.
[00:05:28] Speaker A: Teaching Jesus to build a chair.
[00:05:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:05:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:30] Speaker B: Check out my little guy.
But, yeah, here's St. Joseph, who's just very hidden, but without him, think about the threat to the life of Christ if he had not been that hidden protector.
[00:05:44] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:05:44] Speaker B: He's Batman, I've just realized. The hidden guardian, the silent guardian. Oh, my gosh. No, no, he's not Batman.
[00:05:51] Speaker A: That's not. He's not Batman.
[00:05:53] Speaker B: Sacrilegious, isn't it? But yeah. What do you think for women? Does it like, you're a female? Obviously, I am. You're a female of the species.
[00:06:01] Speaker A: You're also a male.
[00:06:02] Speaker B: You are also a female and identify as one. Your pronouns are. What are your pronouns? Mom. Mom.
[00:06:10] Speaker A: Care what you sound like.
[00:06:12] Speaker B: So as a female, what do you think about St. Joseph? Do you? Cause I think men obviously have a bit of an affinity there. Or they can have an affinity, natural affinity. Fathers, what do you think when you think about him?
[00:06:23] Speaker A: I just think about the amount of trust he had to have, you know, like.
And in some ways, it's a more feminine quality to trust God. Speaking to you through a dream, for example.
[00:06:36] Speaker B: Yeah. That's interesting.
[00:06:37] Speaker A: You know, like, it's kind of a more feminine sensitivity to be.
[00:06:40] Speaker B: Why do you say that?
[00:06:41] Speaker A: Connected to those emotions and those sort of deeper feelings that might come up through a dream. Oh, yeah, I think.
[00:06:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay.
[00:06:48] Speaker A: Yeah. But to be like, okay, yes, there really was an angel.
[00:06:50] Speaker B: So he. He was really a nurturer.
[00:06:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:52] Speaker B: And a carer. You're saying there's something caring about him.
[00:06:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:55] Speaker B: He certainly wasn't a barbarian, but by all accounts, man of honour. The scriptures tell us a man of honour. What a great thing to Be. We're in Lent, too. Well, we're taking a break today because it's a major solemnity, a big celebration in the life of the Christian calendar, which is celebrating St. Joseph and his life. But we are in Lent. Tomorrow morning, we're back into it again.
How's your Lent going?
[00:07:18] Speaker A: Yeah, not too bad, actually. Yeah. Yeah. I'm, you know, I'm doing this fiat.
[00:07:24] Speaker B: Tell us. Tell us for our listeners who are going, what's Fiat 40?
[00:07:27] Speaker A: Lots of people. I'm not perfect.
[00:07:29] Speaker B: So what is fiat 40?
[00:07:30] Speaker A: So fiat is a program of discipline.
[00:07:33] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:07:34] Speaker A: Prayer and physical sacrifice.
[00:07:37] Speaker B: Sacrifice for 40 days.
[00:07:39] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm doing for 40. You can do it for 90.
Super duper. But, you know, came off the back of one called Exodus 90, which is for men.
[00:07:47] Speaker B: Yeah. When they have an Exodus 40 ladies.
[00:07:49] Speaker A: Version, you know, so it's.
There's recommendations for things you should take up spiritually, and there's recommendations for things you should give up. Like sacrifice for the 40 days.
[00:08:00] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:00] Speaker A: Which is, you know, quite a Catholic, Christian thing to do. A lot of denominations have that during. Anyway, it's not unusual, but this is supposedly a bit more strict. But, you know, within the boundaries of your own discernment of what is right for you and what is the best and necessary thing for you to do.
[00:08:17] Speaker B: Tell us what fiat means.
[00:08:19] Speaker A: Means. Yes.
[00:08:20] Speaker B: Yeah. And it comes from Mary's. Yes.
[00:08:23] Speaker A: Mary's. Yes. To be the mother of God.
[00:08:24] Speaker B: Yeah. That trusting, faithful. Yes.
[00:08:26] Speaker A: The surrender, really.
[00:08:27] Speaker B: So it's really Lent as a time of surrender.
[00:08:29] Speaker A: And it's. Let it be.
[00:08:31] Speaker B: Yeah. Let it be.
[00:08:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:32] Speaker B: So it's this whole let it be during Lent. Lord Jesus, let it be done unto me according to your will. You know, it's the surrender, and it's for women. And you meet together in a group, don't you? Yeah.
[00:08:41] Speaker A: The best bit about it is that you get to have buddies, which, you know, you don't often get during Lent. Often you're quite alone in your sacrifices. Yeah. Do it yourself.
[00:08:48] Speaker B: Diy, Lent.
[00:08:49] Speaker A: But actually, that's. Yeah. You shouldn't be doing it yourself, should you? So the underpinning is that you. If you don't do the spiritual discipline, there's no way you're gonna get any benefit from the physical discipline. Even if you give up chocolate for the whole of Lent, the benefit's not there if it's not underpinned by a spiritual discipline.
[00:09:05] Speaker B: More.
[00:09:06] Speaker A: More so than the physical.
[00:09:07] Speaker B: It's kind of. It's almost like a bit of a dietary denial.
[00:09:11] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:12] Speaker B: Without that. Right.
[00:09:13] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:09:13] Speaker B: The whole point is to have a focus beyond. It should. That those little sufferings should remind us of the big suffering of Christ on the cross.
[00:09:20] Speaker A: Yeah. So the group meetings are great because you just get together and you go through what you're struggling with or you know, what you've. I think you've already had some. We've had two meetings so far. We've all had surprises.
[00:09:30] Speaker B: So would you, would you rate it?
[00:09:33] Speaker A: I would rate the group aspect. I don't need to ask me after Lent.
[00:09:37] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:09:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:37] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:09:38] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know yet whether I'll be like, oh, always be a Fiat 40 person in Lent now. But it's been a good change for me to give it a go. Yeah.
[00:09:48] Speaker B: Yeah, that's good.
[00:09:49] Speaker A: Yeah. What about you? How's your Lent?
[00:09:51] Speaker B: Yeah, my Lent is ticking up. It's pretty good, actually. It's kind of. Sometimes I think to myself, oh, kind of. It doesn't feel like Lent. It's. I mean, there's these disciplines and things have changed and prayer focus and all the rest of it. But yeah, it's. It's interesting Some. Some lengths I've experienced. It's been a real sort of challenge. I felt it. I felt the challenge.
I started hard and maybe that was. That was helpful. I don't know. But I jumped in. I won't give away what I did, but I jumped in really full on for the first few days. And then maybe that, you know, when. When I. After that was over, maybe it was like, oh, yeah, this is now.
[00:10:32] Speaker A: This is normal.
[00:10:33] Speaker B: This is the smoother bit. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe that's. But this year it's been. I would describe it as sort of a joyful Lent. And I think that's probably what it should be in some ways.
[00:10:42] Speaker A: Lent is not meant to be miserable.
[00:10:43] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I used to probably have the wrong sense of it, thinking this denial and sacrifice.
[00:10:48] Speaker A: Sacral.
[00:10:49] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. But in actual fact, it's about drawing close to Christ. And that should bring us joy.
It shouldn't be. And there'll be trials in that. Cause Christ will ask things of us that we are capable of but probably don't want to do.
[00:11:03] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:04] Speaker B: He'll never test us beyond our means, but Christ wants us to be righteous and to be holy and to strip away that sin. And that's hard. Encrusted barnacles that hang around for years. And you don't want to let them go.
But yeah, it should also be a deep sort of joy in that.
[00:11:22] Speaker A: So it's always an invitation, right? Christ doesn't push, he always invites. Yeah, yeah.
[00:11:27] Speaker B: Behold, I stand at the door and knock. Not, behold, I stand at the door and pick the lock. So, yeah, little dad joke there with some scriptures. Let's jump into it because we are on a time clock. First episode Lent. We don't want to take all your valuable time for doing other things, but we've had an article sent to us by Sylvie. Thank you, Sylvie, for sending this article to us. And she thought it was great. Some good content in here. I thought it was worth reflecting on. But a specific question in particular that we would explore. But basically, let me just read some paragraphs from the article. Christianity is under siege around the globe. In certain parts of India, racial Hindu extremists.
[00:12:04] Speaker A: Radical.
[00:12:05] Speaker B: Sorry, there are radical Hindu extremists who. It's a racial Hindu extremist. It is ethnic, isn't it? There are radical Hindu extremists who want to hunt and kill believers. In fact, two weekends ago there was a call went out just before that saying from this radical Hindu group that this weekend should be a weekend of slaughter of Christians. Now, I don't know what the end result of that was, but that's pretty frightening stuff. In Ukraine, orthodox Christians face targeted violence in the midst of protracted and brutal conflict. These attacks come from the outside, visible enemies who deny Christians even the most basic right to worship and peace. However, as will soon become clear, an even greater threat exists within the church itself. When believers adjust their faith to meet the expectations of secular society, they unintentionally contribute to its decline. I think that's a great point. It is, isn't it? Because we think, oh, we're being more accommodating and that will help. But in actual fact, we're contributing to the decline. If we are not loving, we become accommodating. Rather than loving. Loving's a bit tougher at times. Accommodating is just sort of going along with. And it actually does contribute to the decline of society.
Yeah, it's a very powerful reminder. Dr. John G. West addresses this sobering reality in his new book called Stockholm Syndrome, Christianity why America's Christian Leaders Are Failing and what We Can Do About It. Although he focuses on the United States, his observations reach well beyond American borders. Take Australia, for example. In 1971, 86%, it's quite high. Of Australians call themselves Christian. Today, that figure has plummeted to nearly half. It's even lower in New Zealand, which is, yeah, quite astounding.
[00:13:40] Speaker A: There's almost as many Jedis as there are Christians.
[00:13:43] Speaker B: Yeah, man, that says a lot about your culture, doesn't it, when you're just making up stuff out of movies. It's tempting to blame secular hostility alone. Militant atheists, government restrictions, social pressures. But west in his book argues that the problem goes deeper, much deeper. Too many Christian leaders align themselves with the very forces that undermine biblical authority and traditional teaching on sexuality, marriage and religious liberty. They believe that siding with cultural elites is the best way to remain relevant. Their beliefs are entirely misplaced. West uses the term Stockholm Syndrome Christianity to illustrate how believers in prominent positions can adopt the mindset of hostages who bond with their captors. I think that's a great comparison. One thing I would add to this though is he says sexuality, marriage and religious liberty. Yep, fundamentals.
I'm gonna also say respect for the sanctity of human life, which is right at the top of the pile. And I would also say that the Christian social teachings around the economy and the human person, often Christian social teaching is reduced to a very sort of anemic version where people just, you sort of have. Yeah, yeah, well they say, they talk about almost socialist principles of, you know, government and the climate change issue and that's about it. Sort of more left leaning Christians. But in actual fact Christian social teaching is profound and it's got some really important things to say about the economics, how people should be paid about nurturing and prioritising the family and economic life. These are also things that are absolutely missing in our culture. And I think some Christians have tended to adopt like capitalism because it's not communism and it's not oppressive. They think, oh, capitalism must be our way. But in actual fact the church says no, communism is. And there are also evil excesses with capitalism that we need to critique too. So I think that that's something to consider. But yeah, he basically from there he sort of goes on to talk about how, you know, church leadership is sort of essential in all of this and how difficult it is if we don't have good strong leaders. But I guess the question I wanted to us to think about is how can families respond to these increasing secular pressures and this kind of challenge? What does it mean for us as a family or as an individual? Because it's not like you can just, you can't change the culture. No, it's mammoth. And you can't force Christian leaders who don't want to be courageous and step up to step Up. So what do you do? What do you do?
I'm asking you.
[00:16:10] Speaker A: You're asking me.
[00:16:11] Speaker B: Answer my question.
[00:16:12] Speaker A: Now you just got to do your bit. And now I have to answer the question.
One of the things I think that is important is that we form our children to understand this. The secular forces that are kind of there, you know.
[00:16:26] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:26] Speaker A: And to read the news or. We don't really watch the news in our house, but we discuss the news with a critical eye and a Christian lens. So we're not just going along with what we're told is the case.
[00:16:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:39] Speaker A: I think this is particularly important at the moment with Trump administration, with the war in Ukraine.
[00:16:44] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:45] Speaker A: With all those kind of buzz things that are out there. And.
[00:16:48] Speaker B: And you just get much orange man.
[00:16:50] Speaker A: Bad.
[00:16:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:51] Speaker A: And no, actual.
[00:16:51] Speaker B: Yeah. Zelensky is as military. It's like, dudes, the first. We all know this, and it's like we've completely forgotten. The first casualty in war is what truth. And it's like, we're just like. All of a sudden, we're like, no, no, no. It's not complicated. It's really simple.
It's. Yeah. That's very dangerous, that approach.
[00:17:11] Speaker A: And I think also forming our kids with an understanding of those things you talked about, you know, the genuine Christian teachings around morality and sexual ethics and all of that stuff is really important. Especially if your pastors are not gonna preach it.
[00:17:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:28] Speaker A: You know.
[00:17:29] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think that's. Look, I was talking to a Christian leader, a minister, just the other day, and he's in a denomination where there's a hierarchy, so he's got leadership above him. And he said to me, look, it's. You know, we're doing our bit and we're fighting hard, but if our senior leadership in the church. So some denominations that will look different to others. You're a Catholic or an Anglican, you're gonna have bishops. Right. If they're not really leading the charge, then it's sort of isolated pockets. It is a lot more difficult. And he's right. It doesn't excuse us from doing a bit, but it does make it more challenging.
[00:18:03] Speaker A: And I think there's a place for also the Christian denominations that are strong to be strong together. You know, like, don't be afraid to get together with friends from other denominations that are on the same page as you about these things. Cause that's where your strength will come from.
[00:18:17] Speaker B: The pro life movement's a great example of that. There's a lot of genuine ecumenism in the pro life movement. They have robust debates and discussions about the Protestant Catholic difference, but absolutely united on that respect for the sanctity of human life. And that's so essential because the sanctity of human life, every human life, is an image of God, is an image bearer. And of course Satan would want to destroy every image of God he can. And so it's just, it's so fundamentally important. And more and more I am seeing now that so many of the issues we face, they began with the failure to respect and welcome new human life. And it just flows out of that. So many issues. And what you're also starting to see now is the pattern of discrimination, harassment, denigration and also persecution that pro lifers have been experiencing for decades is now the model they're using in these other areas as well. When they want to come after someone on a completely different issue like the gender question, they are adopting the same behaviors that they have been using against pro lifers for decades. So yeah, that's a great example of that coming together as a unified whole. What about within the family itself, do you reckon?
[00:19:24] Speaker A: I think it's just making sure that discussions are always open with the kids, you know, and like.
[00:19:28] Speaker B: Yeah, well you don't. That's a great point. And our kids now they're a bit older, they come home from school and friends and they often have things and I think being there for questions when they. And not being, I think the temptation as a parent, you go, oh, I've had a tough day, that's a big issue. And you sort of. I know I have been at times sort of tempted to give a quick try it answer and brush it away. Cause you're like, oh, it's too complex. But in actual fact, taking the time and sort of unpacking and I think we're getting better at that as parents. But I think that's important. I think also we don't watch the news, we're not consumed by the news. Now I'm not saying don't watch the news, but I've realised you don't need to watch the news. Yeah, there is actually more and more I'm seeing there is very little of substance there. I'll go and look at the Herald website, which is a major newspaper in New Zealand for those who are listening outside of the country or one of our other major news providers, I'll look at it and if there's some major emergency I'll go and check it. I'll often flick through Twitter. Cause you get global news a lot quicker that way. But what I'm not doing is we're not sitting there watching the news show every night. We don't have a set time, we don't sit down and do it. That used to be a thing, but I've realized now it's actually totally unnecessary.
[00:20:37] Speaker A: Yeah, we might. We maybe we turn it on if something major happened.
[00:20:40] Speaker B: Yeah, there was an earthquake or a major disaster or something like that.
[00:20:42] Speaker A: Or somebody won something in the Olympics.
[00:20:44] Speaker B: Yeah.
But like, we don't. Our family is not living in an ignorant bubble. We know what's going on in the world and we're just. The beauty is we're not getting propagandized.
[00:20:56] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:57] Speaker B: So I think that's something to consider. You know how much. And I think one thing, like there's this whole new area of academic study now about how climate alarmism has actually harmed children. It's created anxiety problems in children. Cause they scared the heck out of them.
[00:21:14] Speaker A: You've stolen their childhood, Brendan.
[00:21:16] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, you have stolen my childhood. You know, and the great climate thing is it's coming, we're all gonna die and everyone's evil and nothing's doing enough about it. And then they're like, here you go, kids. Deal with this.
And as you can imagine, you're a young child and you're like, oh my gosh, everyone, all the adults who are supposed to be the calm, level headed ones are all running around in an apocalyptic panic. And so it's no wonder that we've created this anxiety. But the thing is, we don't want that in our children. You know, we want. And we as adults, I think we need to sort of give them a rational engagement and sometimes it's important to shield them from those absurdities of the.
[00:21:54] Speaker A: World and the extremes and reporting and.
[00:21:55] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. To actually just sort of give them a sense of hope. I wonder. Sometimes I worry about families who don't have any faith. How do they navigate some of these major. When they're in the middle of another meltdown about what's happening in America or Russia, Ukraine, war, or whatever it might be. And you think, how do people without faith navigate this in their families? Yeah, you know, it must be just very sort of confronting and I think.
[00:22:21] Speaker A: Probably choose not to think about it. Yeah, to some extent.
[00:22:23] Speaker B: Yeah. I think the other thing too is, and this is important, we should actually pray for our leaders.
I think we might have said this on the show before, but it's very easy to pray on people when you're not praying for them. And our leaders, often we Forget we're part of the church too.
And I think sometimes we need that. There's a healthy democratic pressure. The church is not a democracy, but there is a healthy democratic pressure that can come from the Christian faithful if they pray for and they just get alongside their leaders and say, hey, you know, are you going to talk about this issue? Are you going to teach on this? You know, whatever it is, you know.
[00:22:58] Speaker A: Courage a little bit, eh?
[00:22:59] Speaker B: Yeah. If it's just one lone voice, it's probably not heard. But if there's families and sane, rational people who genuinely care for their leaders and so pray for them, I think that's for their strengthening and courage. So, yeah. Thank you, Sylvie. Sylvie, for sending us. I was going to say Sylvia, scroll back through our notes here. Sylvie, thank you so much for sending that article, folks. If you want us to discuss things, we're happy to do that. And my wife Katie, I should say, she does like a nice positive article.
[00:23:27] Speaker A: So we're so positive.
[00:23:28] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Well we've got. So, you know, don't just send us the negative stuff.
We've actually got some stuff coming up in future shows, actually quite good stuff. Katie, I want to talk about this. You haven't seen this. So you're.
[00:23:39] Speaker A: No. And based on what I heard last night, I don't think I'll be watching.
[00:23:42] Speaker B: Oh yeah, well, okay. So I want to talk about this. It is awesome. This brand new Netflix TV show called Adolescence. It's British. Each there's only four episodes. I love the Brits.
[00:23:54] Speaker A: Yeah, they're good. They're good at that.
[00:23:55] Speaker B: They do not overcook their TV series.
They ruin it when they come back for too many of them. But, but they don't. If you get six shows in a series, that's a good. You know. What was that one we used to watch together about the flu? Do you remember that?
[00:24:09] Speaker A: Survivors.
[00:24:10] Speaker B: Survivors. And then they took it off air. They cancelled it after season two.
[00:24:14] Speaker A: The book finished.
[00:24:15] Speaker B: Yeah. But they didn't give it a good. They didn't stick the landing really.
[00:24:18] Speaker A: The true to the book.
[00:24:20] Speaker B: Okay, fair enough. That was. There's a. There's a whole Facebook page. It's about a global pandemic flu Pandemic. What? What? Covid. Everyone thought Covid would be. Yes, we basically wiped out the heaps of people and, and it's about the survivors and the. There's a Facebook page now dedicated like fans of the show who are like bring it back, bring it back. But anyway, this TV show, it's a British TV show called Adolescence. It's only four episodes. Each episode is just under one hour long. Each episode. And gosh, it is something else.
I won't give any spoilers, but basically in a nutshell, there's an adolescent boy, a 13 year old boy, who is accused of murdering a girl.
And it is based on a true story, but it's not a true story. So it's based on real events, inspired by true events. Yeah. And. And what it does is, first of all, technologically it is amazing. It is a masterclass in acting and filmmaking because each of the episodes is one continuous shot.
[00:25:19] Speaker A: That's pretty impressive.
[00:25:20] Speaker B: There are no cuts. And I went looking because often you have films that say, oh, there's no cuts, but they actually hide the cuts. When a camera goes through a doorway, for example, you can actually splice in a new shot and things like that. They don't.
It's all one continuous shot. So the third episode of the four is a psychologist interviewing the boy and the camera just follows her in all the way into the prison, sits down with him in the room. And then when she goes in and out a couple of times and the camera follows her, there's no cuts. And so this child actor, like the child actors in this are amazing, like as adults, doing this in one continuous take is something else, but for children as well. So there's an amazing sort of what you might call a technical gimmick there, but it really is, gosh, it's executed well. But more importantly, what makes the show so important is it's really about.
It's exploring and holding a mirror up to society about the issue of technology and social media and family life.
And the interesting decision, writing decision they made is there's not a single episode that focuses on the victim's family. It's about the perpetrator and his family. And really the final episode is very powerful with this father, mother and the older sister grappling with him.
Cause it skips ahead. Each episode skips ahead in time a little bit. And it's the pressure they feel as the parents of a murderer, accused person. And, and they sort of question, what did we do as parents? And they talk about he was on his computer all the time. Cause that social media is a factor in it. And you know, remember how he used to be before he got the computer.
But what it does, it doesn't actually preach at you, it just sort of.
[00:27:09] Speaker A: Says show, don't tell.
[00:27:10] Speaker B: Yeah. And it tells you these issues. The second episode, they go into the school and of course it's the kids are on their phones and there's this whole thing about technology and social media. They don't mention him, but they allude to Andrew Tate. It's clearly meant to be Andrew Tate. I think they're alluding to when they talk about this guy online who's influencing men. Cause masculinity is one of the other themes.
And gosh, yeah, profoundly important. But unfortunately, I kind of feel a little bit like it didn't quite get there. Well, it's kind of interesting. It's like, I hope it does start a wider conversation culturally with people about, well, what, what is the imposition of technology in the lives of our kids? And, and are we like. There's one very stark moment where the mother talks about the fact that, you know, I saw him on his computer late at night. I just sort of said. I walked past the door and said, you know, time for bed. And. But then I didn't. The light didn't go off and I didn't do anything. And she, she sort of, she's feeling the guilt of that.
And the father's questioning, was I a good dad? And, and clearly he is like, he. It's clear in the show, he is. He's an ordinary, everyday, working class, good man.
And yeah, it's. But the problem is, if we don't get to that next stage of saying, okay, well, these themes of technology and social media and masculinity for young boys, you can't just sort of blame toxic masculinity. If you're not gonna offer them a genuine vision of masculinity, what's the alternative? And that's what's missing. I feel like his dad is a great model of that. But how do you equip dads to recognise and be active in the life of the kids? And that, that's. The show doesn't do that and it's not trying to do that, but it is. That's the key thing that needs to happen. There is, you know, we need to offer our boys something.
Not just tell them, you know, oh, you're wrong to do this, you're wrong to do that. Well, great. But what am I supposed to do?
[00:29:00] Speaker A: Stuff. Your computer is bad. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:29:02] Speaker B: And I think that's something we've strived to do. And like I was thinking about as I watched it, our family home, we. We've held off as long as possible with our kids and we also have a very controlled awareness of technology.
But that doesn't mean. I think one of the things I was thinking about is you can still be vulnerable if you start to think, oh, we've got this nut cracked. We've got it figured out.
[00:29:28] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:29:28] Speaker B: You know, we got some supervision software and our kids only go on once a week and they're all good. But it's a very compelling and addictive technology that will want and encourage children to sort of sneakily get online when they shouldn't be and all that sort of stuff. And you think, oh, we're all good, but in actual fact, if you're not careful, it can sort of lapse a. So, yeah, something important to think about. And I was thinking maybe Lent could be a time for families to talk about and think about that sort of, you know, having some of those.
[00:29:58] Speaker A: Yeah. Even me, like, one of the things that I've given up is social media for Lent.
[00:30:02] Speaker B: How's that been?
[00:30:03] Speaker A: Is really good for me.
[00:30:04] Speaker B: So you're not getting my funny memes. I'm saying, I'm sorry.
[00:30:06] Speaker A: I'm gonna get a whole lot on Easter Sunday. I won't be available because I'll just be looking at memes all day.
[00:30:12] Speaker B: There's some crackers waiting for you in.
[00:30:14] Speaker A: Your Facebook messenger inbox.
The first couple of days. Like, I noticed how often I would go to just go into Insta or Facebook without consciously even being aware of it.
[00:30:25] Speaker B: Yeah. That's the brain behavior. So.
[00:30:28] Speaker A: And I thought that I would have to delete them off my devices, but I've managed with. I already didn't have Facebook on my phone because they couldn't be bothered. But, yeah, I haven't had to delete them. I've just managed to.
[00:30:38] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:30:38] Speaker A: Stay off. And then I thought, oh, maybe I'll just check in on Sundays. But I haven't done that either because I feel like it's really good for me not to be. Not that I was like, always on it either. I don't think I'm on it nearly as much as other people are. But it's kind of what your go to was when you sat down in a spare five minutes, that's your go to jump on one of those.
[00:30:56] Speaker B: It is instinctual. It is a dopamine neural pathway behavior behavioral thing that happens. Addiction happens very easily. You don't realize it.
[00:31:04] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:05] Speaker B: Then you get overwhelmed because you just got multiple devices.
[00:31:07] Speaker A: So nice to not be.
[00:31:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:31:09] Speaker A: In that zoo.
[00:31:11] Speaker B: The thing is too, if you're a parent who's listening, look, this is a battle worth fighting. There's. I think we've talked previously about various issues and there's things like Online disinhibition effect. People get online and they just. They, like. That's why cyber bullying is worse. They don't see faces and voices, so the empathy mechanisms don't even work.
[00:31:27] Speaker A: Our daughters were talking about an incident at school yesterday which revolved around somebody else's Facebook post or Instagram post that they had even seen.
[00:31:34] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:31:34] Speaker A: And then they ended up in the middle of it, and I was like, you know, this girl had posted it literally to get their attention, and they didn't even know what she was crazy about. Which is kind of funny.
[00:31:43] Speaker B: But an amplified social comparison. That's another one. Another effect where you. Because it's all about showing people how awesome you are, and so you subconsciously or consciously compare yourself and start to get anxious.
[00:31:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:55] Speaker B: And depressed about your own life, all those kinds of things. But there's also now. We're now at the phase where they're talking about something called digital dementia.
This is young people, young people who are now so online, they're not remembering that. They're not. That their capability to actually store information is getting harmed by this. Because, I mean, for a while now, they've been talking about Google memory outsourcing. So you outsource to Google your memory, just, oh, I'll Google it. But what's happening is, as I said, they're now talking quite openly about this idea of this concept of digital dementia where you. You just don't store or retain. And that's not a good. That is really not a good thing. And I look at our kids and I think, gosh, I'm grateful. We've have fought a hard battle at times.
[00:32:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:32:39] Speaker B: Because they read books, they have lots of information going on. I mean, for Pete's sake, our twins, who are 15 the last couple of dinner times, have been talking about. And it's been for a few weeks now, but talking about Nicolae Ceausescu and Romania and what happened there. Because I've been reading books about the communist oppression of Romania and they know the history and. And as they regurgitating back to us these important facts of these real events, you're like, yeah, they know stuff.
[00:33:07] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:33:07] Speaker B: And they've got it stored away. And that's, you know, the more of that, the better.
[00:33:11] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:33:12] Speaker B: So, yeah, But Lent could be a good time to have that conversation in.
[00:33:15] Speaker A: The real world, my people.
[00:33:16] Speaker B: We should. One thing I was sort of thinking, Lent we should try and do is have resurrect family game night.
[00:33:21] Speaker A: But that would be a Lenten sacrifice family fight night. I mean, game Night.
First of all, about family fight night.
[00:33:32] Speaker B: A little bit of a. Bit of a light hearted one before we jump into our goodness, truth and beauty and our scripture reflection. And we've only got one question this month, but here is another question for you, caddy. Is it harder to be a firm mum than to be a real mother?
[00:33:49] Speaker A: This is the kind of thing I'm missing by not being on Facebook.
[00:33:52] Speaker B: Oh, I'll tell you, this is great. This is a look I've cheat. I'm pretty sure this is real. It's not satire. At first I thought it was a satire.
[00:33:58] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:33:59] Speaker B: This lady called Heather, she posted on social media a couple of months ago. Someone said being a fur mum, that's the mum of a pet. You're not even a mum for Pete's sake of a pet. It's your pet.
[00:34:11] Speaker A: You've already given your opinion.
[00:34:13] Speaker B: Someone said being a fur mum is not the same as motherhood. I disagree. I love it when people. That's the kind of thing you do now. You just go. People say that at nighttime it is dark. I disagree. And you just say crazy stuff and you just put I disagree on the end and it's like, oh, yeah, that's a valid view.
It might be.
[00:34:35] Speaker A: You've made your point.
[00:34:37] Speaker B: We wake up every two hours and go outside at night for at least the first month. While this is the pet owners, while you were making bottles and changing diapers in the comfort of your kitchen, who's doing that at 2am? Oh, this is.
But yes, we're both tired.
I'm sorry. This is so entitled. While your infant can easily tell you if they are hungry, well, our children didn't do that. Mama, I am hungry or need a diaper change. We as dog mums, I guess dog owners really have to figure it out. But yes, we both worry. While you had help, family significant other, baby shower.
[00:35:21] Speaker A: Surely there's a dog shower these days.
[00:35:22] Speaker B: Surely we are doing it all on our own and we don't get state assistance doing it. That's fair. I mean it is the most important work of the community is really raising pets, isn't it?
[00:35:34] Speaker A: I mean grown up dogs.
[00:35:36] Speaker B: I mean someone's gotta pay the Social Security bill and the pets are gonna do it. Sorry, I am an exception to this because my family does, that's in capitals, does recognise my pet as my child. Whole family might need a conversation, an intervention there and I love them for that and all the help they provide. But yes, we both question our ability to mother While you have 18 years to get it together for your child. We have 18 weeks at best to ensure our fur baby has the proper training, nourishment and vaccines. But yes, we both have hard work. I can go on and on how easily being a dog mum is comparable to actual motherhood. My baby can get sick, get hurt. I worry just like you do. You can agree or disagree, unfriend or unfollow. I am a mother.
[00:36:21] Speaker A: Oh, my goodness.
[00:36:22] Speaker B: That's a bold decoration.
[00:36:23] Speaker A: Her dog go out and buy her flowers for Mother's Day.
I'm gonna go with no.
[00:36:30] Speaker B: I'll tell you. Look, if you, I mean, you've raised a very confident child. If this is their level of overconfidence, really, there's some. There's a bold woman here.
[00:36:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:41] Speaker B: But, yeah, this is not reality. It's.
Gosh. But it's a symptom of our age. Right. It's.
[00:36:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:48] Speaker B: Not just the expression of this sort of bold.
[00:36:51] Speaker A: She's trying to say I haven't chosen fur babies instead of real babies because it's easier.
[00:36:57] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, I think this is, this is a guilt thing. Right.
[00:37:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:02] Speaker B: This is someone who's outwardly going, no, no, I am a mother. How do you. But inwardly they get on board with.
[00:37:08] Speaker A: The fact that dogs aren't easy. Like we've had friends get dogs. You know, all those lockdown, all those lockdown puppies that people got. Like, it's not easy at the beginning with the toilet, with the.
[00:37:18] Speaker B: But it's not that hard.
[00:37:20] Speaker A: But it's not.
[00:37:21] Speaker B: Once you've got them trained.
[00:37:22] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:23] Speaker B: They look after themselves.
[00:37:24] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:26] Speaker B: You chuck food on the floor in a bowl.
Don't even need to heat it up sometimes.
[00:37:30] Speaker A: You don't need to do that.
[00:37:31] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:37:33] Speaker A: Don't sweep the floor.
[00:37:34] Speaker B: Does what it wants and it protects you and it's obedient and.
[00:37:37] Speaker A: Yeah. And you can get that emotional connection. Yeah, definitely. But it's not the same as parenting. There's not the emotional input required. You know, she hasn't got her 13 year old dog coming to her and going, I just feel sad and I don't know why.
[00:37:50] Speaker B: Yeah. The other dogs are talking mean about.
[00:37:52] Speaker A: Posted this on Facebook about me.
[00:37:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:37:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:55] Speaker B: I said my fur is too long.
[00:37:56] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:57] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's, it's, it's funny. It's an ontological era. Obviously there's a. I mean, you are a pet owner and the pit exists for your fulfilment.
[00:38:06] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:38:06] Speaker B: The child doesn't. The child. You are a mother when you have children and the children, they Exist for their own sake and we exist. They are received as a gift and are called a self giving love. That's not what a pet is at all. But I love this. But we have 18. You have 18 years to get it together. I'm like, no, you don't understand parenting, do you? Because basically what happens is. No, we don't. We barely have nine months to sort of get our head around the fact that there's about to be a baby and that's the first time. And then. And then just when you got that figured out, the next one comes and they're different. And then you're like, great, okay, first six weeks of madness, and then if you're lucky, after six weeks they start to sleep through. And then you're like, okay, I got this figured out. And then all of a sudden the next thing you didn't expect and weren't prepared for happens in their development. And then you think, oh, yeah, I got the sword. And then the terrible twos hit. And that just goes on and on. And just when you think you've mastered something, yeah, great, I got this. Bang. Some new stage of human development happens and you're pulled into the middle of it. And yeah, it's a. Never ending. It's quite funny, isn't it?
This lady doesn't have kids. I'm confident of that. And I think this, I think this is an expression of an inner conviction and guilt. People have probably said to her, you know, it's not the same. And she's going, it is the same. But, you know, and this is her manifestation of her struggling to accept that, you know, it's not the same. But I hope she goes on to have kids. That would be a great joy for her and it would probably almost certainly solve this.
[00:39:33] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:39:34] Speaker B: This issue. But. Yeah. Are you. Do you think being a fur mum is harder than being a real mum?
[00:39:39] Speaker A: No, but. Oh, no, I am a fur mum. If you.
[00:39:42] Speaker B: You are. We've got the. I hate that.
[00:39:44] Speaker A: He's the easiest. He's the easiest fur baby ever.
[00:39:46] Speaker B: I hardly say apologies to any fur mums out there. And like, I get it, but, you know, I know people love their pets and I'd love a dog, but we, we have a. We have an agreement.
[00:39:54] Speaker A: I don't want to go outside for two hours every night for at least the first month.
[00:39:58] Speaker B: Yeah, we have an agreement. The agreement we have is Katie doesn't want a dog. And I agree with you.
[00:40:06] Speaker A: But he doesn't need anything else to keep alive.
[00:40:08] Speaker B: Yeah, I'd love A dog man. I just. I can imagine him. He'd just be. Or her, I suppose. Could be a female dog man's best friend. But, yeah, not Mum's, but yeah, it is. Being a mother man. It's. Talk about devaluing motherhood.
[00:40:23] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right.
[00:40:24] Speaker B: But I think it's. There's so much wrapped us up in this. Not just the kind of crazy idea here that's obviously false and not just the boldness, which this very. Like, if you'd got up in the town square 50 years ago and said this, they would have said, shut up. Cheryl sat down. That would have been that way at the end of it, you know, oh, that's good old Cheryl. She's crazy. You know, now it's like, oh, there's a group of people gather round and they go, yeah. Yes. Yeah, Cheryl was right. In fact, we should form a. A little society. The Underappreciated Mothers of Fur.
[00:40:54] Speaker A: There probably is one babe.
[00:40:58] Speaker B: We should start one.
Charge a fee. So, yeah, that was our bit of humour for the month. So, yeah. So your answer is clearly no. Being a firm mum is not more difficult.
[00:41:08] Speaker A: Well, not in my experience of motherhood in person. Motherhood.
[00:41:14] Speaker B: There you go. End of. End of the debate.
Alrighty, Katie, that musical interlude means it's time for our moment of goodness, truth and beauty. What is your moment of goodness, truth or beauty?
[00:41:43] Speaker A: Katie, get to jump the gun on you here.
[00:41:45] Speaker B: Oh, okay, good.
[00:41:47] Speaker A: So we went to a wedding on Saturday.
[00:41:49] Speaker B: Oh, how dare you. And you're looking at my notes.
[00:41:52] Speaker A: I don't know what you're going to say, so it's probably different.
[00:41:54] Speaker B: No, that's fine.
[00:41:55] Speaker A: And Bren can tell you a bit more about that in his moment. In a moment.
But one of the most greatest blessings of this wedding, apart from the actual wedding, was that there was a woman there that I've known for a long time. She was my children's preschool teacher. And I thought about it often over the years. We had quite a connection, I remember, you know, didn't know for sure she was Christian as a teacher, but, you know, eventually found out and.
[00:42:23] Speaker B: Oh, you could tell.
[00:42:24] Speaker A: Yeah, you could tell, but, you know, you didn't kind of go, so if.
[00:42:27] Speaker B: You'Re listening, you know who you are.
[00:42:29] Speaker A: She is one of our fans, apparently, according to her.
[00:42:32] Speaker B: Yeah. And. And if you're listening, Tracy, we're just. Tracy. Tracy.
[00:42:35] Speaker A: We'll just name her Tracy.
[00:42:37] Speaker B: Tracy. Yeah. Your. Your life was absolutely a witness from day one. Yeah. This you now, you know, the Christian. The Christian radar goes Up.
[00:42:44] Speaker A: One of the things. Yes. The Christian radar went off and one of the things was that I felt like as a mum with, you know, I had three under two.
[00:42:51] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:42:52] Speaker A: Well, it was three under three by the time Lucy started at preschool.
[00:42:54] Speaker B: But think he could have been a fur mum, really struggling.
[00:42:58] Speaker A: Two hours in the night, she. I felt like she saw me, you know, and she valued our family and there was no, like, judgment when we had another baby. And. Yeah, just a real celebration of that. And we haven't seen a lot of each other over the years, but we've reconnected at this wedding and that was awesome. It was a real blessing.
[00:43:15] Speaker B: We were located at the same table.
[00:43:17] Speaker A: I think that the host did that on purpose. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they've funnily enough, become friends with our friends over the last few years. So it's pretty cool. Yeah, so it's just really nice. Real awesome to see how God brings you back together with people, brings people into your life for a reason. And, you know.
[00:43:33] Speaker B: That's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. And my moment of goodness, truth and beauty was that exact same wedding, I should say. And I put that in the show notes too, so. But yeah, Mercy and Kayden, they.
Well, Mercy is the daughter of our really good friends. And, yeah, it was just such a beautiful wedding. Young couple. It's great. I mean, because we're sort of at that stage when you go to weddings of your friend's children, that. That's. That's kind of scary. You're.
[00:44:02] Speaker A: You're.
[00:44:03] Speaker B: You're officially. Yeah, you're. You're doing the gruppes stage at that point. But it is. What was so beautiful for me about this was that Brent, her dad, him and I have been friends and both of us would describe it as brothers, really, since we were young teenage boys ourselves. That's where we first met at youth group. And we just bonded in a very profound and really beautiful kind of way. And literally we're like brothers. Like, it's. Brent is the kind of guy who. I might not see him for a couple of years. So when we moved away to Auckland, we just had no contact with them apart from one brief moment when they came up to Auckland, actually. And so we didn't see them for many years. And then as soon as we were back in town and connected again, it was like no time had passed. One of those kind of friendships and what was so beautiful for me was I remember Mercy as a young baby. That was sort of amazing now, watching her standing at the front of a church, you know, in front of the altar, giving her life to this beautiful young man as well. But there was also, I mean, so much of it. The sense of what an authentic Christian wedding was about.
[00:45:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:45:18] Speaker B: Cause I imagine some people could be tempted to look at that and go, oh, they young and you know, don't do that now. Wait till you're 30, live a little, all that kind of stuff. No, no, this was, it was joyful, it was what it should be. It was this young couple who were not worried about the peripheries, who were focused on what is important. What does God want for me in my life? The vocation of marriage is my calling. This is it. Let's jump in both feet. And it was a real beautiful sweetness. And I think I was reminded particularly how when you start out on the marriage journey, it's very sort of, you're like, wow, you're very doe eyed and very lovey dovey. And it's all sort of very, you know, it's very much grounded in that beautiful sort of overwhelming emotional stuff. And as you get older that wanes a bit. And that's not a bad thing. Cause you start to develop a sort of very maturity within your relationship. But you realise you need that at the beginning. Cause that sort of cements a deep bond and a deep sense of something sentimental and real. But it can't stay there. It must go on from that. But you wouldn't want to be sort of like an older cynic and sort of. Oh yeah, okay, you're sure, you're sure what it's like? No, you actually have to. And it was good to be, have that joy rekindled and be reminded of what it's like to actually be at that place in the journey. But more importantly for me was here I am with my brother and his beautiful wife and there's his eldest daughter is getting married and I get to share in this moment with them. It was such a privilege just to be invited, to be there and to be witness to this. And all I could think about during the wedding was when we were young men and that we grew our hair long together. We, yeah. Wear together. It was crazy. There's a whole backstory we don't have time for. But here we were, this thing, the fruitfulness of this community life shared together is now giving a legacy beyond just us, you know. Well, not that him and I gave mercy to the world, that'd be a bit weird. But you know, I mean there's a whole legacy behind his Christian fatherhood that, that started when he was a very young boy.
[00:47:24] Speaker A: Yeah. You were there for the deep magic.
[00:47:26] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's like, wow, to be here now, watching this thing pay itself off in a whole nother level. And there'll be more to come as well. I mean, when he becomes a granddad for the first time. You know, things like that.
[00:47:39] Speaker A: Better get some granddad jokes ready.
[00:47:41] Speaker B: It was a great day for dad jokes. So it was just beautiful. And it was a beautiful Christian wedding. It was not cynical. It wasn't sleazy. It wasn't. You know how often these things can be now. I think our culture doesn't really know how to handle marriage properly anymore. So it's often dirty jokes or cynicism, but it was real, it was sincere. It was very beautiful and innocent and not childish naivety, but a beautiful innocence. So. Yeah, that was great. What about your scripture reflection, Katie? What have you got?
[00:48:12] Speaker A: I've been focusing a lot on joy for one reason or another.
[00:48:18] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:48:18] Speaker A: And.
Oh, I've lost my page, which is.
[00:48:23] Speaker B: Kind of interesting, because typically you don't think of joy and Lent, but in actual fact, you probably really should because you're drawing closer to Christ. We talked about that before.
[00:48:31] Speaker A: Well, I mean, I may never have been necessarily focusing on it, but the Lord has sort of drawn me to that and for lots of different reasons. And it's been something that's been going on since late last year where I had quite a hard run of things.
But one of the things I really learned through that and had my eyes open to was that we can still praise God in our sadness, and we should be praising God in those moments. So I'm quite a big fan of the Psalms, Me and King David.
So Psalm 42, and it's in there twice. Why, my soul, are you downcast? Why so disturbed within me? Put your hope in God for I will yet praise him, my Savior and my God. And I think that's just sums up kind of that. That wrestle we have with, like, sometimes we just feel sad and awful.
[00:49:18] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:49:18] Speaker A: But that this should. As Christians, there should still be that level of hope and happiness and praise in that. Yeah. And I've been listening a lot to that praise and worship song, Alive and Breathing.
[00:49:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:49:28] Speaker A: If you're alive and breathing, praise the Lord.
[00:49:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:49:29] Speaker A: Like you don't need anything else.
[00:49:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:49:31] Speaker A: Just need to be alive and have oxygen in your body, and then you should be praising God.
[00:49:35] Speaker B: You know, if you're breathing and you're above ground, God's got something for you to do.
[00:49:38] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:49:39] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's I think you're right. And it's that sort of. With David, we see that it's like even in the midst of his lamentations, what does he say? Today we would say, oh, woe is me, and oh, I need therapy. And oh, you know. But he says. So he laments and, you know, I'm downcast. But then what he does is it's almost immediately he says, my soul longs for you. So his longing is directed upwards and outwards to God. And that's. That's such a beautiful lesson for us.
[00:50:09] Speaker A: And it's made me think a lot about that line in the Magnificat where Mary says, my spirit rejoices in God my Savior. So that idea of, like, sometimes our heads aren't really in it.
[00:50:18] Speaker B: No.
[00:50:18] Speaker A: But that rejoicing and that it comes from our spirit, comes from a deeper place. And it comes from like, my spirit recognizes his spirit and that's where the joy comes from. Not.
Yeah, it doesn't have to come from your head every time.
[00:50:30] Speaker B: I've got a book, actually, just one.
I just pulled it off the back shelf here. From Passions to Emotions. The creation of a secular psychological category. And it talks about how we. It's a very recent thing, how we never used to actually view ourselves as this through the psychological lens. It's very Freudian, but in actual fact it's. So it's now all about our emotions. Yeah, but previously it was about the passions and about actually restraining passions with virtue. And so that's what you're saying. It's you. You. I don't. It's not about what you feel, it's about what you live. Do I live it? And how do I do that? I embody it. I make decisions. I don't just let my emotions rule me. That's beautiful.
My scripture is from Luke 4:1 13, and it's all about the temptation of Jesus in the desert, which is obviously very Lenten focused. 40 days in the desert and all that. It's quite amazing when you look at the three categories of temptation that he undergoes.
The final one for me in particular is the one that really struck me as worthy of conversation here. I won't go into all of the. Or great detail. The last episode of the Lamp, by the way, just last week actually Plug Plug was all about that and really unpacked that in a deep way. But there's these three different types of temptation.
And often when we think of temptation, we often think, oh, the devil tempts you and gives you something you Want. But in actual fact, the first type of temptation is he tries to get Jesus to do something good, but in a disordered way. And it's like. And then the next one is, you know, I'll give you power. So it doesn't start there. It's like, do this good thing. But, you know, do it in a disordered way. But the third one is where he says, well, why don't you throw yourself off the walls of Jerusalem? You know, God's promised he'll protect you. You know, he will give his angels charge you to guard you. You won't dash your foot against a stone. You know, you'll be safe. You know, you can trust God. And here he is again. It's so. It's quite subtle, but powerful. He is manipulating God's profound truth and goodness to try and get him to do something that he shouldn't be doing. Now, Jesus, of course, responds and says, you know, it's written, don't put the Lord, your God to the test. When I was younger, I always thought, like, oh, yeah, don't do. Like, don't do really insane, crazy things. You don't jump off a cliff and say, God save me. That's not what God intends. But in actual fact, what's really going on here, I mean, that is true. That's a crazy version of it. But it's more powerful and subtle than that. In small ways, we can all start to assume on the providence and the care of God in lots of ways. And where we can just, like, imagine someone who had earned enough money to feed their family, pay their mortgage, and they said, you know what? We're gonna give all of this money away for the next month. And so. And don't worry, God will look after us. And it's like, hold on, hold on. You're presuming on the providence of God there. God's given you a little bit extra to give and some time to give, but he needs you to feed your family first, you know, so actually, don't presume on the providence of God. Don't do crazy things. Be discerning and that sort of marriage of grace and nature together. So do the natural things and the gifts that God, you know, don't abandon your family or uproot your family and take them to the middle of Africa to be missionaries. Clearly, that's not.
That's not where you meant to be. Like, you know what I mean? It's. God's put you in a place right here and right now and use that as your discernment yardstick and then discern where he's calling. Don't presume on. And I think the most obvious one for me is that we can presume on the saving gift of God's grace. Like God wants us to be saved and he works in our lives to get us to heaven, but if we're not careful, we can kind of presume on that and sort of just think, nah, I'm all good. I'll do whatever I want and I'll get there. St. Paul doesn't say that. St. Paul says, in actual fact, you know, I work out my salvation with fear and trembling, so I don't get to the end of the race and discover that I've been disqualified.
[00:54:23] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:54:24] Speaker B: So there's something in that. I think I. I hear that final temptation, and it's like the temptation just to sort of. To leap and leap off the wall when God's saying, no, don't do that. I want you to use these natural gifts, like prudence. I've given you them for a reason.
[00:54:38] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:54:38] Speaker B: And I got it. Really. I don't know, maybe I'm not explaining that as well, but it really just really struck me. There's a lot in there, actually. You know, I said, go and listen to the episode of the Lamp if you want to hear more. But there's those team. Three categories of temptation are really important, actually.
So. Yeah, that was. That was me.
Alrighty, Katie. So that's our moment of goodness, truth and beauty for the month. We've got one question. How can families live Lent? Well, how do you recommend this with young kids? Because it's kind of a bit easier when they get a bit older. Yeah, you sort of. They start to discern for themselves, but when they're younger and, you know, it's not like you're gonna. That's all fast. And they're like, well, it's fast. You know, I just want to eat, you know, how do you. How do we live? Like, we don't. I think we tend to think of it as an individualistic pursuit. But Lent is communal. The body of Christ and our family, which is the domestic church. How do we live that?
[00:55:37] Speaker A: Well, I think we just. Just that discussion, isn't it? They know that Lent. I think they know what's happening during Lent.
[00:55:45] Speaker B: So first thing, make it a thing.
[00:55:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:55:47] Speaker B: So it's on your calendar each year. So they get used to. And particularly young kids, they get normalized to it.
[00:55:51] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:55:52] Speaker B: Something's different. What else?
[00:55:55] Speaker A: Just encourage them to give something up usually.
[00:55:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:55:58] Speaker A: For the End. But also having that conversation around it being for the right reasons.
[00:56:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:56:02] Speaker A: You know, Nathaniel chose himself an extra sacrifice, which I won't share here.
[00:56:08] Speaker B: Well, it's kind of our sacrifice.
[00:56:10] Speaker A: So he likes to share it with the world every morning. And we're kind of like, you're not supposed to do it that way. He decided that the original sacrifice he'd made wasn't hard enough.
[00:56:17] Speaker B: So he's gone.
[00:56:18] Speaker A: He's gone.
[00:56:19] Speaker B: Gone and made himself triple hard mate.
[00:56:22] Speaker A: Made himself a little hermitage in his bedroom, so to speak.
Yes.
[00:56:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:56:27] Speaker A: But it's. Yeah. Having that conversation around.
Yeah. What is enough of a sacrifice? What is the reason for this? Yeah.
[00:56:34] Speaker B: What are you. Why are you doing it?
[00:56:35] Speaker A: If you don't just to show off, then it's not gonna. Not gonna help anybody. Yeah.
[00:56:39] Speaker B: I think too, we've. One thing we found helpful is we sort of set the tone. So our. We've got a beautiful icon that we've had since almost day one, which is of like the Resurrection, the empty tomb. Yeah. And so that went away in the drawer for Lent. And we brought out this. I've got this beautiful Russian. It's a print actually, of a. I had it printed off myself of a beautiful Russian painting of Christ in the desert. And he's sitting there, and it's the sort of. The look of. Of isolation and everything.
He's just sitting alone on a rock in this desert, and it's in a little frame. And one of our girls actually said to us the first Sunday of Lent, she said, oh, hey, dad, where's the lent picture of Jesus? And so they recognized. Oh, yeah. And I was like, oh, yes. So we put away the icon, put that one up. And so it sort of set a tone.
[00:57:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:57:29] Speaker B: It's in our family home that even as young kids, before they're even into it or aware, there's like, oh, something's changed.
[00:57:35] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:57:36] Speaker B: There's a. The visual cue is there.
[00:57:38] Speaker A: Which only comes out at length. So it's you.
[00:57:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:57:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Big deal.
[00:57:41] Speaker B: Yeah. Quite a powerful thing to do is given those sort of reminders and stuff.
[00:57:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:57:47] Speaker B: So, yeah, I guess that's. And I think. Don't. You don't have to do. It's not rocket science. You don't have to over complicate it. You don't have to do too much. So bring them along on the journey with you in little ways and then you'll start to realize, won't you? We've seen when our kids were ready for the.
[00:58:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:58:01] Speaker B: The next big challenge.
[00:58:03] Speaker A: And well, they kind of came into it themselves, didn't they, really?
[00:58:06] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then they. They jumped in with both feet and now they're sort of. They're out of control. Lenten machines.
Katie, that's. That's our show. That's a pretty good show. We've just done one hour. Don't forget, folks, if you want to support us, you can do that via lifenet.org nz you can also send your questions to us via that website. There's a link at the top of the page. Don't forget to share the episodes with friends and family if you're getting something out of this. And of course, patreon.com leftfootmedia if you become a regular monthly patron, you'll get access if you become a five dollar monthly patron, to our daily episode of the Dispatchers podcast. That's just me doing that, by the way. I should say that just in case.
[00:58:50] Speaker A: People are like, I was Cody, guys, you pay more.
[00:58:51] Speaker B: Yeah. But also, don't forget, if you give a dollar a month or more than, you know, anything more than a dollar, but at least $1 a month, that's the sort of minimum that Patreon will allow us to, by the way. Then you will get access to that weekly episode of the Lamp podcast, which is a deep dive into a different passage of the Christian scriptures. So, yeah, lots of stuff there for you and lots of ways you can support us. And a huge thank you too, to all of our patrons and to our donors. It's thanks to you that we're able to keep producing these episodes and keep doing this important ministry that we're doing. So, so thank you so much for that. Katie, do you have anything to say before we wrap this up?
[00:59:28] Speaker A: No. Keep living Lent.
[00:59:29] Speaker B: Well, yeah, that's a good one. Be Lenten. Keep at it.
Folks, thanks so much for tuning in. Don't forget, live by goodness, truth and beauty, not by lies. And we'll see you next time on the Little Flock.
[00:59:40] Speaker A: See you then.
The Little Flock is a joint production of the LifeNet Charitable Trust and Left Foot Media.
[00:59:54] Speaker B: If you enjoyed this show, then please help us to ensure that more of this great content keeps getting made by becoming a patron of the show at patreon.com leftfootmedia.
[01:00:05] Speaker A: Thanks for listening. See you next time on the Little Flock.
Sa.
